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	<title>Comments on: Positive Rights as Means Not Ends</title>
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	<description>Ideas on Liberty</description>
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		<title>By: stop spam plugin</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/positive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-63220</link>
		<dc:creator>stop spam plugin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 09:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9339226#comment-63220</guid>
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[...] Every once in a while we choose blogs that we read or services that we use. Here is the wordpress plugin that we use to stop spamy links. We love our website clean. [...]…...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Stop Link Spam&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>[...] Every once in a while we choose blogs that we read or services that we use. Here is the wordpress plugin that we use to stop spamy links. We love our website clean. [...]…&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/positive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-43633</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2011 23:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9339226#comment-43633</guid>
		<description>Jeremy,

Your idea that US Healthcare is worse than other countries is misleading.

Please post your information about Canada beating the US in cancer survival rates. I believe your information is incorrect.

Also, some major reasons for the US having the highest infant mortality rates is because those rates are not tabulated equally. One example of this is that some countries do not count aborted babies while others do. This skews the data significantly. The low life exectancy rate is similarly skewed. Of important note: is it not desireable for a country to have increased freedom and because of that allowing its people to determine their own life-expectancy outcomes? The low life expectancy rate argument is a red-herring. Increased governmental involvemnt will only make some of these worse whereas consumer driven healthcare is more efficient. The problem with our system is that it is not consumer driven. The reason our system has the problems that it does is BECAUSE of government interference. And well-meaning yet misinformed folks like you want us to have more of it!

Nonetheless, positive rights cannot trump negative rights or exist in harmony as you infer. In order to have a positive right, a negative right has to be violated, thus meaning no rights. Some of what you listed are not even negative rights! There is no right to breathe clean air! That is made up! It is impossible in our world today as we know it to ensure people breathe clean air. Some of what you call positive rights are wishes, and not rights. 

True negative rights do not infringe upon others. If a &quot;right&quot; infringes or violates another&#039;s equal exercise of their rights, it is not a right! And therefore, no positive rights are valid since all of them violate someone else&#039;s negative rights.

You can&#039;t have your cake and eat it too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeremy,</p>
<p>Your idea that US Healthcare is worse than other countries is misleading.</p>
<p>Please post your information about Canada beating the US in cancer survival rates. I believe your information is incorrect.</p>
<p>Also, some major reasons for the US having the highest infant mortality rates is because those rates are not tabulated equally. One example of this is that some countries do not count aborted babies while others do. This skews the data significantly. The low life exectancy rate is similarly skewed. Of important note: is it not desireable for a country to have increased freedom and because of that allowing its people to determine their own life-expectancy outcomes? The low life expectancy rate argument is a red-herring. Increased governmental involvemnt will only make some of these worse whereas consumer driven healthcare is more efficient. The problem with our system is that it is not consumer driven. The reason our system has the problems that it does is BECAUSE of government interference. And well-meaning yet misinformed folks like you want us to have more of it!</p>
<p>Nonetheless, positive rights cannot trump negative rights or exist in harmony as you infer. In order to have a positive right, a negative right has to be violated, thus meaning no rights. Some of what you listed are not even negative rights! There is no right to breathe clean air! That is made up! It is impossible in our world today as we know it to ensure people breathe clean air. Some of what you call positive rights are wishes, and not rights. </p>
<p>True negative rights do not infringe upon others. If a &#8220;right&#8221; infringes or violates another&#8217;s equal exercise of their rights, it is not a right! And therefore, no positive rights are valid since all of them violate someone else&#8217;s negative rights.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t have your cake and eat it too.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Bornstein</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/positive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-23948</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Bornstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2010 13:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9339226#comment-23948</guid>
		<description>Im not sure you really understand the health care situation, as system is a mess, we have one of the highest infant mortality rates and lowest life expectancy rates of the western world, Canada is beating us in Cancer survival rates. Consumer driven health care will not fix these things. Even the suggested vans in your video won&#039;t because of all the factors of health problems people are not covered by that even rand corp does not know of. As for rights you probably should read some Dershowitz, For every &#039;&#039;claimed&#039;&#039; right there is a counter one, and I hate to tell you that works for negative rights as well for example  the right to smoke, the right to breath clean air, freedom of speech, a safe society, right to abortion, right to save a life, the list goes on and on</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im not sure you really understand the health care situation, as system is a mess, we have one of the highest infant mortality rates and lowest life expectancy rates of the western world, Canada is beating us in Cancer survival rates. Consumer driven health care will not fix these things. Even the suggested vans in your video won&#8217;t because of all the factors of health problems people are not covered by that even rand corp does not know of. As for rights you probably should read some Dershowitz, For every &#8221;claimed&#8221; right there is a counter one, and I hate to tell you that works for negative rights as well for example  the right to smoke, the right to breath clean air, freedom of speech, a safe society, right to abortion, right to save a life, the list goes on and on</p>
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		<title>By: Alfred Centauri</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/positive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-23701</link>
		<dc:creator>Alfred Centauri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 22:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9339226#comment-23701</guid>
		<description>So-called positive &quot;rights&quot; are in fact anti-rights, i.e., a negation of rights.  There can be no &quot;right&quot; to violate individual rights.

A right is a moral claim to freedom of action that a government can either protect or infringe.  Government is not the source of individual rights; the source of individual rights is man&#039;s nature as a rational creature of volitional consciousness.

When a government grants &quot;rights&quot;, it infringes individual rights and as such, these granted &quot;rights&quot; are anti-rights.

There is a right to health care in the sense that it is right for a man to freely pursue health care through voluntary trade with health care providers under terms acceptable to both and absent coercion from a third party.

There is a right to health insurance in the sense that it is right for a man to freely contract for that insurance through voluntary trade with an insurance provider under terms acceptable to both and absent coercion from a third party.

Our government has and continues to infringe our true rights to health care and health insurance through its vast infrastructure of regulatory agencies that interfere with and coerce both those seeking and those providing health care and health insurance.

In order to secure our rights, our Constitution must be amended to guarantee a separation of economy and state:  &quot;Congress shall pass no law abridging the freedom to produce and trade&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So-called positive &#8220;rights&#8221; are in fact anti-rights, i.e., a negation of rights.  There can be no &#8220;right&#8221; to violate individual rights.</p>
<p>A right is a moral claim to freedom of action that a government can either protect or infringe.  Government is not the source of individual rights; the source of individual rights is man&#8217;s nature as a rational creature of volitional consciousness.</p>
<p>When a government grants &#8220;rights&#8221;, it infringes individual rights and as such, these granted &#8220;rights&#8221; are anti-rights.</p>
<p>There is a right to health care in the sense that it is right for a man to freely pursue health care through voluntary trade with health care providers under terms acceptable to both and absent coercion from a third party.</p>
<p>There is a right to health insurance in the sense that it is right for a man to freely contract for that insurance through voluntary trade with an insurance provider under terms acceptable to both and absent coercion from a third party.</p>
<p>Our government has and continues to infringe our true rights to health care and health insurance through its vast infrastructure of regulatory agencies that interfere with and coerce both those seeking and those providing health care and health insurance.</p>
<p>In order to secure our rights, our Constitution must be amended to guarantee a separation of economy and state:  &#8220;Congress shall pass no law abridging the freedom to produce and trade&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Farrell</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/positive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-23655</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 19:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9339226#comment-23655</guid>
		<description>Great nuts and bolts explanation!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great nuts and bolts explanation!</p>
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		<title>By: Positive Rights as Means Not Ends &#124; The Freeman &#124; Ideas On Liberty &#124; Conservablogger</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/positive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-23605</link>
		<dc:creator>Positive Rights as Means Not Ends &#124; The Freeman &#124; Ideas On Liberty &#124; Conservablogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 16:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9339226#comment-23605</guid>
		<description>[...] Positive rights, by contrast, require others to provide such resources.&#160;&#160; For a “right” to health care or education to have real meaning, it must entail the ability to coerce others into providing health care or educational services as needed.  via thefreemanonline.org [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Positive rights, by contrast, require others to provide such resources.&nbsp;&nbsp; For a “right” to health care or education to have real meaning, it must entail the ability to coerce others into providing health care or educational services as needed.  via thefreemanonline.org [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Mc</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/positive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-23602</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Mc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9339226#comment-23602</guid>
		<description>I believe that as a society if the majority of people want to insist that healthcare/education or whatever else is a right then fine.  What we need to change is that the &quot;government&quot; is then responsible through coercion etc. to deliver those rights.  

What if people took it upon themselves to establish trusts, charities, etc. dedicated to providing assistance (many already exist) to those in need and unable on their own to provide for themselves these &quot;rights&quot;.  What if Ted Kennedy (and many many others) had spent the last 50 years building private organizations dedicated to truly helping the needy and delivering assistance through their large personal wealth and connections?  

Could you imagine what could have been built to help people with all the resources that have been wasted on 50-100 years of trying to achieve universal health care using the state and federal governments?  Mindboggling!

Would we have a better system today if all health care was delivered by private enterprises only regulated by a customer&#039;s ability to seek alternatives?  I think so!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that as a society if the majority of people want to insist that healthcare/education or whatever else is a right then fine.  What we need to change is that the &#8220;government&#8221; is then responsible through coercion etc. to deliver those rights.  </p>
<p>What if people took it upon themselves to establish trusts, charities, etc. dedicated to providing assistance (many already exist) to those in need and unable on their own to provide for themselves these &#8220;rights&#8221;.  What if Ted Kennedy (and many many others) had spent the last 50 years building private organizations dedicated to truly helping the needy and delivering assistance through their large personal wealth and connections?  </p>
<p>Could you imagine what could have been built to help people with all the resources that have been wasted on 50-100 years of trying to achieve universal health care using the state and federal governments?  Mindboggling!</p>
<p>Would we have a better system today if all health care was delivered by private enterprises only regulated by a customer&#8217;s ability to seek alternatives?  I think so!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Blanton</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/positive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-23574</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Blanton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 02:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9339226#comment-23574</guid>
		<description>There is a distinction between negative rights and positive rights that is not often considered, that being that negative rights are generally thought of as existing outside of and prior to government&#039;s existence. Where the Bill of Rights guarantees pre-existing negative rights, positive rights must be legislated into existence. People are not born with a natural right to have health care, education or shelter.

The idea that government has the power and authority to grant rights is dangerous because implies that government also has the power and authority to take away rights. Many people already accept the encroachment of government into areas that challenge their constitutionally guaranteed rights to a dangerous extent. To accept that the government can confer positive rights exacerbates the perception that government may rescind negative rights, which are supposedly guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a distinction between negative rights and positive rights that is not often considered, that being that negative rights are generally thought of as existing outside of and prior to government&#8217;s existence. Where the Bill of Rights guarantees pre-existing negative rights, positive rights must be legislated into existence. People are not born with a natural right to have health care, education or shelter.</p>
<p>The idea that government has the power and authority to grant rights is dangerous because implies that government also has the power and authority to take away rights. Many people already accept the encroachment of government into areas that challenge their constitutionally guaranteed rights to a dangerous extent. To accept that the government can confer positive rights exacerbates the perception that government may rescind negative rights, which are supposedly guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Hogan</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/positive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-23564</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9339226#comment-23564</guid>
		<description>I often use the concept of positive and negative rights in my arguments, almost always with liberals that have a burning desire to remake the world in their image. It should be persuasive, but liberals by and large FEEL rather than THINK, so it never dawns on them that the subjects of their feel-good dictates are basically slaves. 

I&#039;ve also observed how they bristle when the shoe is on the other foot.  They want to be the &quot;who&quot; in &quot;who is doing what to whom.&quot;  I, for one, am tired of being the &quot;whom&quot; in that relationship.

By the way, there seems to be a typo in the article.  The following sentence doesn&#039;t read correctly: &quot;But how would does the trump work with a right to health care?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often use the concept of positive and negative rights in my arguments, almost always with liberals that have a burning desire to remake the world in their image. It should be persuasive, but liberals by and large FEEL rather than THINK, so it never dawns on them that the subjects of their feel-good dictates are basically slaves. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also observed how they bristle when the shoe is on the other foot.  They want to be the &#8220;who&#8221; in &#8220;who is doing what to whom.&#8221;  I, for one, am tired of being the &#8220;whom&#8221; in that relationship.</p>
<p>By the way, there seems to be a typo in the article.  The following sentence doesn&#8217;t read correctly: &#8220;But how would does the trump work with a right to health care?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/headline/positive-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-23563</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 21:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9339226#comment-23563</guid>
		<description>Yes Norman, you have a right to a colonoscopy, and big brother will see to it you have one! Assume the position!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Norman, you have a right to a colonoscopy, and big brother will see to it you have one! Assume the position!!!</p>
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