Comments on: The Origins of the Public School http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-origins-of-the-public-school/ Ideas on Liberty Wed, 15 Feb 2012 01:57:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Earl Zarbin http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-origins-of-the-public-school/comment-page-1/#comment-53550 Earl Zarbin Fri, 20 Jan 2012 18:20:52 +0000 http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/the-origins-of-the-public-school/#comment-53550 Government is simply the wrong tool to use in everything except national defense and to try to provide fairness in a system of justice. Education is simply another service that has been lost to the expansive State. Medicine is almost totally gone. What will be next? Food, natural resource and power production, manufacturing, etc., are well on their way. The State won't stop because there is no one and nothing to stop it. This doesn't mean the future can't be rewarding. It does mean what's left of liberty, freedom and opportunity will be constrained even further by the elite in control of the police power. We know we will have arrived at the collectivist nirvana when we no longer can post protests such as this. Government is simply the wrong tool to use in everything except national defense and to try to provide fairness in a system of justice. Education is simply another service that has been lost to the expansive State. Medicine is almost totally gone. What will be next? Food, natural resource and power production, manufacturing, etc., are well on their way. The State won’t stop because there is no one and nothing to stop it. This doesn’t mean the future can’t be rewarding. It does mean what’s left of liberty, freedom and opportunity will be constrained even further by the elite in control of the police power. We know we will have arrived at the collectivist nirvana when we no longer can post protests such as this.

]]> By: Robert Calvert http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-origins-of-the-public-school/comment-page-1/#comment-53544 Robert Calvert Fri, 20 Jan 2012 14:55:47 +0000 http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/the-origins-of-the-public-school/#comment-53544 To Mr. Swacker, I am glad to know there are those of you in the public system who are aware of your actual goals. Thank you! The whole issue turns, at least for me, on governmental involvement, more specifically on the confusion about the nature of government which is violence. Education is good. Education by coercion is illegitimate and can only be initiated and maintained by threat and coercion. Government is simply the wrong tool to use in the case of education, rather like washing your windows with a hammer, something untoward is bound to happen. I cannot help but fear what kind of subtle message is being taught by s system based on raw violence. Kindest regards, RC To Mr. Swacker,

I am glad to know there are those of you in the public system who are aware of your actual goals. Thank you!

The whole issue turns, at least for me, on governmental involvement, more specifically on the confusion about the nature of government which is violence. Education is good. Education by coercion is illegitimate and can only be initiated and maintained by threat and coercion.

Government is simply the wrong tool to use in the case of education, rather like washing your windows with a hammer, something untoward is bound to happen. I cannot help but fear what kind of subtle message is being taught by s system based on raw violence.

Kindest regards,

RC

]]> By: Duane Swacker http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-origins-of-the-public-school/comment-page-1/#comment-45612 Duane Swacker Thu, 18 Aug 2011 01:34:06 +0000 http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/the-origins-of-the-public-school/#comment-45612 It's interesting that the author would use something as invalid as standardized testing to be the supposed measure of public education. You are ranting about the government's attempt to standardize public education but then you rely on standardized test results to condemn public education. To fully understand the fallacy of using standardized testing in education please read N. Wilson's "Educational Standards and the Problem of Error" to be found at: http://epaa.asu.edu/ojs/article/view/577 . There is no professional rebuttal or refutation of his claims to be found anywhere. A more recent and shorter explanation of validity and reliability problems with standardized education and testing by Wilson "A Little Less Than Valid: an Essay Review" can be be found at: http://www.edrev.info/essays/v10n5.pdf . Please read and understand what he has to say. Do you know what the purpose of public education? Do you know what is the legal basis for public education? Many contend that we in public education do not fulfill our basic purpose in that public education is perceived by most to be a job, university study or military service preparation institution and we the public schools supposedly do not accomplish this. But that perceived function is not correct. In Missouri the purpose of public education as stated in the Constitution is: “A general diffusion of knowledge and intelligence being essential to the preservation of the rights and liberties of the people, the general assembly shall establish and maintain free public schools for the gratuitous instruction of all persons in this state within ages not in excess of twenty-one years as prescribed by law.”-Art IX, Sec 1(a) Note it says nothing about preparing students for employment, higher education or military service. The focus should be on providing the opportunity that a student may acquire the "knowledge and intelligence" to be able to enjoy his/her "rights and liberties" as guaranteed in both the state and federal constitutions. And I, as a public school secondary Spanish teacher, contend that we are failing miserably with our fundamental purpose due mainly to attempting to use invalid concepts as educational standards and standardized testing. It’s interesting that the author would use something as invalid as standardized testing to be the supposed measure of public education. You are ranting about the government’s attempt to standardize public education but then you rely on standardized test results to condemn public education. To fully understand the fallacy of using standardized testing in education please read N. Wilson’s “Educational Standards and the Problem of Error” to be found at: http://epaa.asu.edu/ojs/article/view/577 . There is no professional rebuttal or refutation of his claims to be found anywhere. A more recent and shorter explanation of validity and reliability problems with standardized education and testing by Wilson “A Little Less Than Valid: an Essay Review” can be be found at: http://www.edrev.info/essays/v10n5.pdf . Please read and understand what he has to say.

Do you know what the purpose of public education? Do you know what is the legal basis for public education? Many contend that we in public education do not fulfill our basic purpose in that public education is perceived by most to be a job, university study or military service preparation institution and we the public schools supposedly do not accomplish this. But that perceived function is not correct. In Missouri the purpose of public education as stated in the Constitution is: “A general diffusion of knowledge and intelligence being essential to the preservation of the rights and liberties of the people, the general assembly shall establish and maintain free public schools for the gratuitous instruction of all persons in this state within ages not in excess of twenty-one years as prescribed by law.”-Art IX, Sec 1(a) Note it says nothing about preparing students for employment, higher education or military service. The focus should be on providing the opportunity that a student may acquire the “knowledge and intelligence” to be able to enjoy his/her “rights and liberties” as guaranteed in both the state and federal constitutions. And I, as a public school secondary Spanish teacher, contend that we are failing miserably with our fundamental purpose due mainly to attempting to use invalid concepts as educational standards and standardized testing.

]]> By: Mark http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-origins-of-the-public-school/comment-page-1/#comment-45606 Mark Wed, 17 Aug 2011 20:14:25 +0000 http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/the-origins-of-the-public-school/#comment-45606 Great article. To Lynn: Murphy's example didn't speculate on what southern public schools teach about Lincoln, so your anecdote about him is irrelevant. What is more relevant is your last statement: "Neither of us learned the South’s position on the war in public schools." That's not a glowing recommendation of the public schools' teachings about history. Perhaps because you went to school shortly after the Cival rights movement, the new status quo of white guilt (a strong enabler of the welfare state) took priority over the inconvenient truth that the south had a right to secede and that Lincoln tried to dictate their destiny. Great article.

To Lynn: Murphy’s example didn’t speculate on what southern public schools teach about Lincoln, so your anecdote about him is irrelevant.

What is more relevant is your last statement: “Neither of us learned the South’s position on the war in public schools.”
That’s not a glowing recommendation of the public schools’ teachings about history. Perhaps because you went to school shortly after the Cival rights movement, the new status quo of white guilt (a strong enabler of the welfare state) took priority over the inconvenient truth that the south had a right to secede and that Lincoln tried to dictate their destiny.

]]> By: Lynn http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-origins-of-the-public-school/comment-page-1/#comment-45604 Lynn Wed, 17 Aug 2011 15:27:45 +0000 http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/the-origins-of-the-public-school/#comment-45604 "Do the doubters deny that children educated in Texas are exposed to teachers and textbooks that blame the War Between the States on the North, while children in New York are taught that Lincoln was a great president?" My husband and I both attendeded public schools in Louisiana and Texas during the 60s and 70s and were never taught anything negative about Lincoln. He was the president who was honest, saved the union and freed the slaves, etc. We learned to feel kind of ashamed that we were white southerners. Neither of us learned the South's position on the war in public schools. “Do the doubters deny that children educated in Texas are exposed to teachers and textbooks that blame the War Between the States on the North, while children in New York are taught that Lincoln was a great president?”

My husband and I both attendeded public schools in Louisiana and Texas during the 60s and 70s and were never taught anything negative about Lincoln. He was the president who was honest, saved the union and freed the slaves, etc. We learned to feel kind of ashamed that we were white southerners. Neither of us learned the South’s position on the war in public schools.

]]> By: Tuesday 05JUL11 « moflats http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-origins-of-the-public-school/comment-page-1/#comment-44497 Tuesday 05JUL11 « moflats Tue, 05 Jul 2011 03:18:34 +0000 http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/the-origins-of-the-public-school/#comment-44497 [...] “The Origins of the Public School.” http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-origins-of-the-public-school/ [...] [...] “The Origins of the Public School.” http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-origins-of-the-public-school/ [...]

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