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	<title>Comments on: Recycling Discredited Ideas</title>
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	<description>Ideas on Liberty</description>
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		<title>By: New England Patriots</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/recycling-discredited-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-54689</link>
		<dc:creator>New England Patriots</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 08:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I request more people would make a note sites like this that are in truth accommodating to read. With all the thistledown floating almost on the net, it is rare to look over a locate like yours instead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I request more people would make a note sites like this that are in truth accommodating to read. With all the thistledown floating almost on the net, it is rare to look over a locate like yours instead.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Robison</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/recycling-discredited-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-42604</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Robison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 14:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=8804#comment-42604</guid>
		<description>This is a very poignant article.  I never thought Keynesianism was completely dead, but I had certainly thought the economic conditions of the late 1970s had left a big enough impression on most to make it dormant.  I was worried about the resurrection of this flawed philosophy when Obama was elected, but I took some small amount of solace in the fact the he had spent a little time at the University of Chicago and maybe some of the econ department had rubbed off on him.

Knowledge is not the issue though.  The problem with our political climate, and maybe human psychology in general, it that people want immediate fixes to their problems.  We certainly see this in the medical and most other fields.  The Chicago/Austrian view is one of the long term. Sure, there&#039;s pain now, but trust us, it will get better... Eventually.  That last word is what most have a problem with.  In a 2/4/6 year election cycle, politicians just don&#039;t have the luxury for &quot;eventually&quot;, even if they know it&#039;s right.  Their political futures are on the line and &quot;decisive action&quot; will always sell better than &quot;decisive inaction&quot;.  

The answer, of course, is to take the power out of government, leaving less on the line for politicians&#039; futures, so they then can do what is right for the economy instead of what is right for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very poignant article.  I never thought Keynesianism was completely dead, but I had certainly thought the economic conditions of the late 1970s had left a big enough impression on most to make it dormant.  I was worried about the resurrection of this flawed philosophy when Obama was elected, but I took some small amount of solace in the fact the he had spent a little time at the University of Chicago and maybe some of the econ department had rubbed off on him.</p>
<p>Knowledge is not the issue though.  The problem with our political climate, and maybe human psychology in general, it that people want immediate fixes to their problems.  We certainly see this in the medical and most other fields.  The Chicago/Austrian view is one of the long term. Sure, there&#8217;s pain now, but trust us, it will get better&#8230; Eventually.  That last word is what most have a problem with.  In a 2/4/6 year election cycle, politicians just don&#8217;t have the luxury for &#8220;eventually&#8221;, even if they know it&#8217;s right.  Their political futures are on the line and &#8220;decisive action&#8221; will always sell better than &#8220;decisive inaction&#8221;.  </p>
<p>The answer, of course, is to take the power out of government, leaving less on the line for politicians&#8217; futures, so they then can do what is right for the economy instead of what is right for them.</p>
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		<title>By: David Willson</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/recycling-discredited-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-42472</link>
		<dc:creator>David Willson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2011 20:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=8804#comment-42472</guid>
		<description>Thank you for posting this. Having been on the financial intermediary side of this mess for the last 5 years I have come to the conclusion - Keynesian Economics = false prophecy. During the initial stages of the visible collapse (July 2007) I had thought that government intervention was going to be key to a &quot;soft landing&quot; in the housing market. However, it is clear that a politician does not a good economist make. We are now clearly observing that government interference can cause a situation that is even worse than the initial problem. I guess the market will just have to do in the meantime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for posting this. Having been on the financial intermediary side of this mess for the last 5 years I have come to the conclusion &#8211; Keynesian Economics = false prophecy. During the initial stages of the visible collapse (July 2007) I had thought that government intervention was going to be key to a &#8220;soft landing&#8221; in the housing market. However, it is clear that a politician does not a good economist make. We are now clearly observing that government interference can cause a situation that is even worse than the initial problem. I guess the market will just have to do in the meantime.</p>
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		<title>By: Atlas Sound Money Project &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Peter Lewin to Speak at the University of Texas at Dallas! &#8211; Oct. 12 &#38; 14, Nov. 17</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/recycling-discredited-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-34217</link>
		<dc:creator>Atlas Sound Money Project &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Peter Lewin to Speak at the University of Texas at Dallas! &#8211; Oct. 12 &#38; 14, Nov. 17</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Oct 2010 20:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=8804#comment-34217</guid>
		<description>[...] Lewin will be presenting on the ideas given in his 2009 Freeman article, found here. *Peter Lewin is Clinical Professor of Finance and Managerial Economics in the University of Texas [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Lewin will be presenting on the ideas given in his 2009 Freeman article, found here. *Peter Lewin is Clinical Professor of Finance and Managerial Economics in the University of Texas [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Lewin</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/recycling-discredited-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-24708</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Lewin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 07:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=8804#comment-24708</guid>
		<description>Mike, I only now saw this. Hence the very long delay.

The way out is simple. Fiscal responsibility. The way in was provided by regulation that caused market signals to malfunctbetwion, making houses seem more affordable than they really were. The way out is to pay for our mistakes and allow the reallocation of resources to sustainable projects. My article implied as much in pointin to the economics of Friedman, Hayek and Mises.

War &quot;between the haves and the have-nots&quot;, what war? What does this mean? I hope it doesn&#039;t mean that because someone thinks that the resentment of those who feel themselves deprived of the riches of others need to be placated by having the state (Federal Government) do what they would like to, but legally cannot. Leadership, wisdom and courage will indeed get us out of this. Forcibly redistributing wealth from some who have more to those who have less is neither wise nor courageous and is certainly not the kind of leadership we need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, I only now saw this. Hence the very long delay.</p>
<p>The way out is simple. Fiscal responsibility. The way in was provided by regulation that caused market signals to malfunctbetwion, making houses seem more affordable than they really were. The way out is to pay for our mistakes and allow the reallocation of resources to sustainable projects. My article implied as much in pointin to the economics of Friedman, Hayek and Mises.</p>
<p>War &#8220;between the haves and the have-nots&#8221;, what war? What does this mean? I hope it doesn&#8217;t mean that because someone thinks that the resentment of those who feel themselves deprived of the riches of others need to be placated by having the state (Federal Government) do what they would like to, but legally cannot. Leadership, wisdom and courage will indeed get us out of this. Forcibly redistributing wealth from some who have more to those who have less is neither wise nor courageous and is certainly not the kind of leadership we need.</p>
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		<title>By: It Is Now Mathematically Impossible To Pay Off The U.S. National Debt - Video Game Forum &#38; Tech Forum &#124; Gaming + Tech News</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/recycling-discredited-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-24707</link>
		<dc:creator>It Is Now Mathematically Impossible To Pay Off The U.S. National Debt - Video Game Forum &#38; Tech Forum &#124; Gaming + Tech News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 06:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=8804#comment-24707</guid>
		<description>[...] TARP as &#039;Huge Rip-Off&#039; - WSJ.com  Recycling Discredited Ideas &#124; The Freeman &#124; Ideas On Liberty Recycling Discredited Ideas &#124; The Freeman &#124; Ideas On Liberty  Bad Regulation Drives Out Good &#124; The Freeman &#124; Ideas On Liberty Bad Regulation Drives Out Good &#124; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] TARP as &#39;Huge Rip-Off&#39; &#8211; WSJ.com  Recycling Discredited Ideas | The Freeman | Ideas On Liberty Recycling Discredited Ideas | The Freeman | Ideas On Liberty  Bad Regulation Drives Out Good | The Freeman | Ideas On Liberty Bad Regulation Drives Out Good | [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/recycling-discredited-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-17724</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=8804#comment-17724</guid>
		<description>Good post Peter and good comments Daniel and Patrick.  Its about time some old philosophies of truly &quot;free&quot; economies are re-examined, and people like Keynes and CH Douglas have certainly proposed some far better alternatives than we have today.  I&#039;m certainly no economist, but i do have the common sense to see whats being done and where things are going with our current economic system and the potential for prosperity which could exist without it as well.  

To break this down into simple terms, today&#039;s economy exists to serve the interests of the banks.  They have been given control of our currency and credit by corrupt politicians from both major parties, have managed to assassinate the two presidents we have had who would have taken away their power to control same (no proof of this that would stand up in court obviously, but its a simple thing to figure out who stood to gain from their assassinations). Then through party manipulation and media control, prevented the only one who was not owing his political career to them from having any chance at all in the past presidential election, even though he was coming in with more than twice the popular support of any of the other candidates in the initial straw poles, and would have won the presidential election with a landslide if his party had given him a chance to run.  

Since the banks exist as parasites, and contribute absolutely nothing of any tangible value to any of us, the only way they can maintain their existence is by establishing political power which must eventually lead to socialism as they must remove any freedom or means that the people might have to get rid of them, before they figure out that they would be better off without them and do so.  The end result of our current economic system can accomplish nothing but this if its allowed to continue.  

Since the greatest part of our national budget is going toward paying interest on the deficit, and since most people in this country are by now working 3 weeks out of each month in order to pay interest on their mortgages and other credit, we have already become virtual slaves to them and once they remove our political freedom as well there will be absolutely nothing left.  I&#039;ve seen this happen already where i came from and if something isn&#039;t done it will happen here, and soon.  When it does, America will cease to exist and become like all the other miserable places in the world, where the purpose of the individual is to serve the state (hence the banks), instead of the state existing (at least in theory) to serve the individuals comprising it.

I&#039;ve made more extensive comments regarding this topic in response to another post on this site, but to put this in very simple terms, the 13 colonies provided us with the perfect and simplest example of what needs to be done prior to the American Revolution, and every complex problem is always solved by a simple solution.  Since King George had simply forgotten to provide them with money, the colonial governments simply printed their own on behalf of the people, and put and kept enough in circulation to pay for what the people could produce.  It wasn&#039;t even an officially sanctioned form of currency but simply script to which people attributed a certain value and used to trade with each other, and this is the single and only purpose which money should have as well.  The people were in control of it through their representatives, and it was created and issued for their own benefit and could not be used as a means to power for private interests.  At the time the 13 Colonies were the most prosperous place in the world with a standard of living many times that of the mother country.  Then when the British banks found out about this, got King George to outlaw the colonial script and replace it with the British pound, they went from this to 75 % unemployment overnight.  This is something they&#039;ve managed to keep out of most of the common history books, but anyone even vaguely familiar with American history is aware of this, and it was this, and not a tax on tea which was the primary cause of the American Revolution as well.

Now, if you take the combined annual profits of America&#039;s Banks, as compared to the national budget, and you figure in the fact that most of the people in this country who are actually producing something and contributing to the benefit and well being of their fellow citizens are having 60 - 80 % of what they produce consumed by the banks in interest, it should become obvious that without them the American people as a whole could experience prosperity far greater than any of their wildest imaginations. Further to this, simply regulating the currency in a sensible and beneficial manner in order to make sure there was always enough of it to pay for what we could produce would increase our production capacity to many times what is is today with what we already have, and produce an exponential growth in that production capacity in the years to come.  Again the only possible outcome of this, is the average person would have many times more then they have today with the same amount of effort going into earning it, as we would be working to feed ourselves and not the interests of the parasites who are bleeding off the vast majority of what were producing now.  I expect we would also be able to exist without taxes as well as the state should have more than enough means to finance its operations simply by putting the currency into circulation required to make up for the increase in our production capacity that having enough would generate on a year to year basis.

The problem is that as Patrick stated, the vast majority of the population is absolutely terrified of having to think for themselves and they want to be told what to do.  As a result they are simply too damn stupid and ignorant to realize whats being done to them or what they could have were this not the case.  Since the banks have the money which they have stolen from us, and consequently the power to control our political system and media, and tell them what to think and do they blindly follow and obey, as sheep being led to their own slaughter.

This is also a problem which will not be solved through our democratic process, as in the case of both Lincoln and Kennedy the banks will simply assassinate any president or politician we elect who would pose a threat to their power and the continued enslavement of the American population.  If this is going to happen, it will take a second American Revolution as the banks and their control of our political system will have to be removed by the people by force of arms, and the threat to our freedom and prosperity will not cease to exist until each and every one of the individuals in charge of our banking system has been executed and their 100 % assets seized by the population as well.  

The single and only thing that give me any hope for America at this point, is that the people seem to be currently preparing for exactly that.  Since the last Presidential election they have been buying up every firearm and round of ammunition as fast as it can be produced, before the current government can pass laws eliminating their ability to do so.  In view of this, i do expect that the banks will engineer some limited relief to the current economic crisis, as both they and the Obama administration are living in absolute terror of the American population at this point, and i expect the people will once again be foolish enough to settle for what they give them instead of taking what should be rightfully theirs.  The simple fact is though that the arms and ammunition will be in place, and since they inevitably must try to remove any and all political freedom in order to enforce the continued denial of our economic freedom, this does increase our chances of success against them later on as well.  The problem will be that if it does come to the people going to war to defend their political freedom, will enough of them realize the source of the threat they are defending against and do something about that to prevent it from becoming a threat again ?.  If they come to realize that it&#039;s not so much Bush or Obama, but the people who put them in power and dictate their actions that are the threat then they will have a chance.

Thanks;  Dave</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post Peter and good comments Daniel and Patrick.  Its about time some old philosophies of truly &#8220;free&#8221; economies are re-examined, and people like Keynes and CH Douglas have certainly proposed some far better alternatives than we have today.  I&#8217;m certainly no economist, but i do have the common sense to see whats being done and where things are going with our current economic system and the potential for prosperity which could exist without it as well.  </p>
<p>To break this down into simple terms, today&#8217;s economy exists to serve the interests of the banks.  They have been given control of our currency and credit by corrupt politicians from both major parties, have managed to assassinate the two presidents we have had who would have taken away their power to control same (no proof of this that would stand up in court obviously, but its a simple thing to figure out who stood to gain from their assassinations). Then through party manipulation and media control, prevented the only one who was not owing his political career to them from having any chance at all in the past presidential election, even though he was coming in with more than twice the popular support of any of the other candidates in the initial straw poles, and would have won the presidential election with a landslide if his party had given him a chance to run.  </p>
<p>Since the banks exist as parasites, and contribute absolutely nothing of any tangible value to any of us, the only way they can maintain their existence is by establishing political power which must eventually lead to socialism as they must remove any freedom or means that the people might have to get rid of them, before they figure out that they would be better off without them and do so.  The end result of our current economic system can accomplish nothing but this if its allowed to continue.  </p>
<p>Since the greatest part of our national budget is going toward paying interest on the deficit, and since most people in this country are by now working 3 weeks out of each month in order to pay interest on their mortgages and other credit, we have already become virtual slaves to them and once they remove our political freedom as well there will be absolutely nothing left.  I&#8217;ve seen this happen already where i came from and if something isn&#8217;t done it will happen here, and soon.  When it does, America will cease to exist and become like all the other miserable places in the world, where the purpose of the individual is to serve the state (hence the banks), instead of the state existing (at least in theory) to serve the individuals comprising it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve made more extensive comments regarding this topic in response to another post on this site, but to put this in very simple terms, the 13 colonies provided us with the perfect and simplest example of what needs to be done prior to the American Revolution, and every complex problem is always solved by a simple solution.  Since King George had simply forgotten to provide them with money, the colonial governments simply printed their own on behalf of the people, and put and kept enough in circulation to pay for what the people could produce.  It wasn&#8217;t even an officially sanctioned form of currency but simply script to which people attributed a certain value and used to trade with each other, and this is the single and only purpose which money should have as well.  The people were in control of it through their representatives, and it was created and issued for their own benefit and could not be used as a means to power for private interests.  At the time the 13 Colonies were the most prosperous place in the world with a standard of living many times that of the mother country.  Then when the British banks found out about this, got King George to outlaw the colonial script and replace it with the British pound, they went from this to 75 % unemployment overnight.  This is something they&#8217;ve managed to keep out of most of the common history books, but anyone even vaguely familiar with American history is aware of this, and it was this, and not a tax on tea which was the primary cause of the American Revolution as well.</p>
<p>Now, if you take the combined annual profits of America&#8217;s Banks, as compared to the national budget, and you figure in the fact that most of the people in this country who are actually producing something and contributing to the benefit and well being of their fellow citizens are having 60 &#8211; 80 % of what they produce consumed by the banks in interest, it should become obvious that without them the American people as a whole could experience prosperity far greater than any of their wildest imaginations. Further to this, simply regulating the currency in a sensible and beneficial manner in order to make sure there was always enough of it to pay for what we could produce would increase our production capacity to many times what is is today with what we already have, and produce an exponential growth in that production capacity in the years to come.  Again the only possible outcome of this, is the average person would have many times more then they have today with the same amount of effort going into earning it, as we would be working to feed ourselves and not the interests of the parasites who are bleeding off the vast majority of what were producing now.  I expect we would also be able to exist without taxes as well as the state should have more than enough means to finance its operations simply by putting the currency into circulation required to make up for the increase in our production capacity that having enough would generate on a year to year basis.</p>
<p>The problem is that as Patrick stated, the vast majority of the population is absolutely terrified of having to think for themselves and they want to be told what to do.  As a result they are simply too damn stupid and ignorant to realize whats being done to them or what they could have were this not the case.  Since the banks have the money which they have stolen from us, and consequently the power to control our political system and media, and tell them what to think and do they blindly follow and obey, as sheep being led to their own slaughter.</p>
<p>This is also a problem which will not be solved through our democratic process, as in the case of both Lincoln and Kennedy the banks will simply assassinate any president or politician we elect who would pose a threat to their power and the continued enslavement of the American population.  If this is going to happen, it will take a second American Revolution as the banks and their control of our political system will have to be removed by the people by force of arms, and the threat to our freedom and prosperity will not cease to exist until each and every one of the individuals in charge of our banking system has been executed and their 100 % assets seized by the population as well.  </p>
<p>The single and only thing that give me any hope for America at this point, is that the people seem to be currently preparing for exactly that.  Since the last Presidential election they have been buying up every firearm and round of ammunition as fast as it can be produced, before the current government can pass laws eliminating their ability to do so.  In view of this, i do expect that the banks will engineer some limited relief to the current economic crisis, as both they and the Obama administration are living in absolute terror of the American population at this point, and i expect the people will once again be foolish enough to settle for what they give them instead of taking what should be rightfully theirs.  The simple fact is though that the arms and ammunition will be in place, and since they inevitably must try to remove any and all political freedom in order to enforce the continued denial of our economic freedom, this does increase our chances of success against them later on as well.  The problem will be that if it does come to the people going to war to defend their political freedom, will enough of them realize the source of the threat they are defending against and do something about that to prevent it from becoming a threat again ?.  If they come to realize that it&#8217;s not so much Bush or Obama, but the people who put them in power and dictate their actions that are the threat then they will have a chance.</p>
<p>Thanks;  Dave</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Shapiro</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/recycling-discredited-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-12638</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Shapiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 22:35:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=8804#comment-12638</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately the people that need to read this are the least likely to do so. The necessity of coersive state intervention in all human affairs for economic stablization, justice, and humanitarian purposes is an old traditional belief that appeals to many and seems to make &quot;common sense&quot;. Well so does the belief that the earth is stationary and sits at the center of the universe. So much for common sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately the people that need to read this are the least likely to do so. The necessity of coersive state intervention in all human affairs for economic stablization, justice, and humanitarian purposes is an old traditional belief that appeals to many and seems to make &#8220;common sense&#8221;. Well so does the belief that the earth is stationary and sits at the center of the universe. So much for common sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/recycling-discredited-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-8734</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 01:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=8804#comment-8734</guid>
		<description>Should anyone be surprised by the resurgence of Keynesianism when, A.) A large number of Americans are totally ignorant of the subject of economics (American Idol is heating up after all!) and B.) A somewhat smaller but still sizable portion of America looks to Uncle Sucker for a handout. It&#039;s a deadly combination. 

This leaves the ruling elite to do as they please and the Ivy League background of these folks screams in their brains for them to have the government &quot;Do Something&quot; in a voice that sounds strangely like Paul Krugman&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should anyone be surprised by the resurgence of Keynesianism when, A.) A large number of Americans are totally ignorant of the subject of economics (American Idol is heating up after all!) and B.) A somewhat smaller but still sizable portion of America looks to Uncle Sucker for a handout. It&#8217;s a deadly combination. </p>
<p>This leaves the ruling elite to do as they please and the Ivy League background of these folks screams in their brains for them to have the government &#8220;Do Something&#8221; in a voice that sounds strangely like Paul Krugman&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Just Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/recycling-discredited-ideas/comment-page-1/#comment-7824</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 01:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=8804#comment-7824</guid>
		<description>How can there be only one comment so far on this outstanding article -- are there a bunch of dormant surfers out there ??  Even Glenn Beck has made some references to this concept .. the opening two sentence paragraph is really powerful and the last line is totally scarry !!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can there be only one comment so far on this outstanding article &#8212; are there a bunch of dormant surfers out there ??  Even Glenn Beck has made some references to this concept .. the opening two sentence paragraph is really powerful and the last line is totally scarry !!</p>
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