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	<title>Comments on: Raoul Wallenberg, Great Angel of Rescue</title>
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	<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/raoul-wallenberg-great-angel-of-rescue/</link>
	<description>Ideas on Liberty</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 00:25:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jan Niechwiadowicz</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/raoul-wallenberg-great-angel-of-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-36910</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Niechwiadowicz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/raoul-wallenberg-great-angel-of-rescue/#comment-36910</guid>
		<description>The usage of “Polish death camps” is wrong and can’t be defend as an indication of location.  Nor should the Jim Powell be allowed to claim just because there was anti-Semitism in Poland that “So it isn’t correct to distinguish between Poles and German Nazis, implying that all Poles were tolerant people”.  Every serious expert would tell him he is wrong.

The author is clearly trying to shift the blame onto the Poles.  As the British Historian and author put it “the automatic equation of Poland with Catholicism, nationalism and anti-Semitism – and thence a slide to guilt by association with the Holocaust – is still widespread.”

Luigi Cajani (Professor of modern history at the Università La Sapienza, Rome) also has noted that  “This expression is certainly wrong and misleading, because it conflates the geographical location of the Nazi death camps with their historical perpetrators.”

They are supported by Professor Norman Davies (Author, British Historian) has stated “There were no Polish Nazis. There was no Polish branch of the Nazi Party. In 1939-45, there were no Polish armed forces under German command, and, unlike almost every other German-occupied country, no Polish volunteer divisions in the Waffen SS. Despite what one often hears, there were no &#039;Polish concentration camps&#039;, and there was no collaborationist government, as in Vichy France or in Norway.”

Shana Penn, Director Media Relations United States Holocaust memorial Museum, has spoken out as well “The most common error of concern, which I will discuss further on, is the identification of Nazi concentration camps on Polish soil as being “Polish concentration camps” instead of, as they were in reality, Nazi-run camps in German-occupied Poland during World War II.”

Unlike the author, Richard Pipes, formerly of Harvard University, makes it clear that  “It must never be mistakenly believed that the Holocaust was perpetrated by the Poles.”

The Polonia are lucky that all prominent Jews and Jewish organisation support the position that it is wrong.  Including

Anti-Defamation League: As an organization devoted to nurturing Holocaust remembrance we share Poland&#039;s concern over the frequent description of Auschwitz as a Polish camp, which suggests the object was built on behalf of the Polish nation,

Abraham H. Foxman (National Director of the Anti-Defamation League): As Jews and Poles have joined together to remember and explore our histories, we have emphasized that the responsibility for the three million Jews who perished in Poland during the Holocaust lies with the Nazis.

Yisrael Gutman (Director of research at the Yad Vashem Institute in Jerusalem and editor in chief of &quot;The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust&quot; 1990): All accusations against the Poles that they were responsible for the Final Solution are not even worth mentioning. Secondly, there is no validity at all in the contention that Polish attitudes were the reason for the siting [sic] of the death camps in Poland.&quot; 

David A. Harris (American Jewish Committee Executive Director): The camps were located in German-occupied Poland, the European country with by far the largest Jewish population, but they were most emphatically not &quot;Polish camps&quot;.  This is not a mere semantic matter. Historical integrity and accuracy hang in the balance.  Any misrepresentation of Poland&#039;s role in the Second World War, whether intentional or accidental, would be most regrettable and therefore should not be left unchallenged.

Bernard Korbman (President Australia Society of Polish Jews and Their Descendants): This is not about semantics, it is not about political correctness, it is about historical accuracy, it is about recognising the tragic loss of life, displacement and suffering by Poles during World War II. It is about not belittling or destroying the integrity and dignity of an entire nation through falsehood and innuendo.

David Peleg (The Ambassador of Israel to Warsaw, Poland) said about terminology such as &quot;Polish concentration camps&quot;. These prejudicial and erroneous phrases represent primarily testimony about ignorance and lack of understanding of fundamental historical truth. Every thinking man knows that it was the Nazis who selected Poland for central site for dreadful genocide of extermination of European Jews. On the Polish soil the Germans built terrifying camps where they systematically murdered 4.5 million Jews (including 3 million Polish Jews) and other nationalities including thousands of Poles.

Shimon Peres (Israeli President) said about it being hard to be in Poland: &quot;that is not the fault of the Polish people, rather it is the incomparable extermination (of the Jews) carried out by the Nazis.&quot;

Yitzhak Rabin (Israeli Prime Minister): In the first place-and it is always necessary to remember this-Auschwitz was a German death camp, built by German criminals on Polish soil. Whoever cannot make a distinction between these two things and links the camp at Auschwitz with Poland, commits a cardinal error

Menachem Rosensaft (the founding chairman of the International Network of Children of Jewish Holocaust Survivors): absolutely legitimate ((to change the name of Auschwitz)). The death factory of Auschwitz-Birkenau, where more than 1,000,000 Jewish men, women and children were murdered, was a German camp, conceived by the Nazi-German government and operated by Germans.

Michael Schudrich (chief Rabbi of Poland) when asked is it possible to accuse Poles as a nation responsible for the Holocaust: Certainly not. I raise objection even the question itself. One cannot even ask such questions! That&#039;s unbelievable that someone can formulate such a statement. That&#039;s not just against Poland, but against the truth and history.

Szymon Szurmiej (Head of Warsaw&#039;s Jewish Theater): One would have to be really ill-willed or have little historical knowledge to link Auschwitz&#039;s location in Poland with the Poles&#039; approval of the camp or even participation in its doings

Dr. Laurence Weinbaum (World Jewish Congress and a historian specializing in Polish-Jewish relations): Polish society as a whole cannot be seen as a perpetrator-nation

Yad Vashem (Israel&#039;s official memorial to the Holocaust): Because many camps were built on Polish soil, many people, due to their ignorance, have put responsibility for their creation onto Poles. This is why Poles want to differentiate between the
location of the camps and the identity of those who erected them and were responsible for their functioning

Shame on the Freeman for allowing this bigotry onto its website.  Anti-Semitism is wrong but so is prejudice against Poles.  Nazi Germany was responsible for the Holocaust and ran the death camps.  Remember that that accusing Poles of participation in the Holocaust is a sin as stated by Michael Schudrich.  Poland is fortunate to have great allies against such poor writers and publications but we should not need them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The usage of “Polish death camps” is wrong and can’t be defend as an indication of location.  Nor should the Jim Powell be allowed to claim just because there was anti-Semitism in Poland that “So it isn’t correct to distinguish between Poles and German Nazis, implying that all Poles were tolerant people”.  Every serious expert would tell him he is wrong.</p>
<p>The author is clearly trying to shift the blame onto the Poles.  As the British Historian and author put it “the automatic equation of Poland with Catholicism, nationalism and anti-Semitism – and thence a slide to guilt by association with the Holocaust – is still widespread.”</p>
<p>Luigi Cajani (Professor of modern history at the Università La Sapienza, Rome) also has noted that  “This expression is certainly wrong and misleading, because it conflates the geographical location of the Nazi death camps with their historical perpetrators.”</p>
<p>They are supported by Professor Norman Davies (Author, British Historian) has stated “There were no Polish Nazis. There was no Polish branch of the Nazi Party. In 1939-45, there were no Polish armed forces under German command, and, unlike almost every other German-occupied country, no Polish volunteer divisions in the Waffen SS. Despite what one often hears, there were no &#8216;Polish concentration camps&#8217;, and there was no collaborationist government, as in Vichy France or in Norway.”</p>
<p>Shana Penn, Director Media Relations United States Holocaust memorial Museum, has spoken out as well “The most common error of concern, which I will discuss further on, is the identification of Nazi concentration camps on Polish soil as being “Polish concentration camps” instead of, as they were in reality, Nazi-run camps in German-occupied Poland during World War II.”</p>
<p>Unlike the author, Richard Pipes, formerly of Harvard University, makes it clear that  “It must never be mistakenly believed that the Holocaust was perpetrated by the Poles.”</p>
<p>The Polonia are lucky that all prominent Jews and Jewish organisation support the position that it is wrong.  Including</p>
<p>Anti-Defamation League: As an organization devoted to nurturing Holocaust remembrance we share Poland&#8217;s concern over the frequent description of Auschwitz as a Polish camp, which suggests the object was built on behalf of the Polish nation,</p>
<p>Abraham H. Foxman (National Director of the Anti-Defamation League): As Jews and Poles have joined together to remember and explore our histories, we have emphasized that the responsibility for the three million Jews who perished in Poland during the Holocaust lies with the Nazis.</p>
<p>Yisrael Gutman (Director of research at the Yad Vashem Institute in Jerusalem and editor in chief of &#8220;The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust&#8221; 1990): All accusations against the Poles that they were responsible for the Final Solution are not even worth mentioning. Secondly, there is no validity at all in the contention that Polish attitudes were the reason for the siting [sic] of the death camps in Poland.&#8221; </p>
<p>David A. Harris (American Jewish Committee Executive Director): The camps were located in German-occupied Poland, the European country with by far the largest Jewish population, but they were most emphatically not &#8220;Polish camps&#8221;.  This is not a mere semantic matter. Historical integrity and accuracy hang in the balance.  Any misrepresentation of Poland&#8217;s role in the Second World War, whether intentional or accidental, would be most regrettable and therefore should not be left unchallenged.</p>
<p>Bernard Korbman (President Australia Society of Polish Jews and Their Descendants): This is not about semantics, it is not about political correctness, it is about historical accuracy, it is about recognising the tragic loss of life, displacement and suffering by Poles during World War II. It is about not belittling or destroying the integrity and dignity of an entire nation through falsehood and innuendo.</p>
<p>David Peleg (The Ambassador of Israel to Warsaw, Poland) said about terminology such as &#8220;Polish concentration camps&#8221;. These prejudicial and erroneous phrases represent primarily testimony about ignorance and lack of understanding of fundamental historical truth. Every thinking man knows that it was the Nazis who selected Poland for central site for dreadful genocide of extermination of European Jews. On the Polish soil the Germans built terrifying camps where they systematically murdered 4.5 million Jews (including 3 million Polish Jews) and other nationalities including thousands of Poles.</p>
<p>Shimon Peres (Israeli President) said about it being hard to be in Poland: &#8220;that is not the fault of the Polish people, rather it is the incomparable extermination (of the Jews) carried out by the Nazis.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yitzhak Rabin (Israeli Prime Minister): In the first place-and it is always necessary to remember this-Auschwitz was a German death camp, built by German criminals on Polish soil. Whoever cannot make a distinction between these two things and links the camp at Auschwitz with Poland, commits a cardinal error</p>
<p>Menachem Rosensaft (the founding chairman of the International Network of Children of Jewish Holocaust Survivors): absolutely legitimate ((to change the name of Auschwitz)). The death factory of Auschwitz-Birkenau, where more than 1,000,000 Jewish men, women and children were murdered, was a German camp, conceived by the Nazi-German government and operated by Germans.</p>
<p>Michael Schudrich (chief Rabbi of Poland) when asked is it possible to accuse Poles as a nation responsible for the Holocaust: Certainly not. I raise objection even the question itself. One cannot even ask such questions! That&#8217;s unbelievable that someone can formulate such a statement. That&#8217;s not just against Poland, but against the truth and history.</p>
<p>Szymon Szurmiej (Head of Warsaw&#8217;s Jewish Theater): One would have to be really ill-willed or have little historical knowledge to link Auschwitz&#8217;s location in Poland with the Poles&#8217; approval of the camp or even participation in its doings</p>
<p>Dr. Laurence Weinbaum (World Jewish Congress and a historian specializing in Polish-Jewish relations): Polish society as a whole cannot be seen as a perpetrator-nation</p>
<p>Yad Vashem (Israel&#8217;s official memorial to the Holocaust): Because many camps were built on Polish soil, many people, due to their ignorance, have put responsibility for their creation onto Poles. This is why Poles want to differentiate between the<br />
location of the camps and the identity of those who erected them and were responsible for their functioning</p>
<p>Shame on the Freeman for allowing this bigotry onto its website.  Anti-Semitism is wrong but so is prejudice against Poles.  Nazi Germany was responsible for the Holocaust and ran the death camps.  Remember that that accusing Poles of participation in the Holocaust is a sin as stated by Michael Schudrich.  Poland is fortunate to have great allies against such poor writers and publications but we should not need them.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/raoul-wallenberg-great-angel-of-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-36653</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2010 15:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/raoul-wallenberg-great-angel-of-rescue/#comment-36653</guid>
		<description>I can understand why Mr. Przedzienkowski might take offense at my reference to &quot;Polish death camps&quot; -- I see there&#039;s a Wikipedia entry on &quot;&#039;Polish death camps&#039; controversy&quot; about authors who apparently try to blame non-Nazi Poles and absolve Nazis for death camps in Poland.

But my Raoul Wallenberg story is entirely about horrors perpetrated by German and Hungarian Nazis, so obviously I&#039;m not absolving Nazis of anything.

I was clearly making a geographical reference to Nazi death camps in Poland as opposed to death camps elsewhere.  I said that it was no longer possible to ship Jews to the death camps in Poland (which is what I meant by &quot;Polish death camps&quot;) -- the reason why the Nazis began the death marches from Budapest.

Moreover, the context for the whole story is the German Nazi conquest of Europe.  The Wallenberg story began after the Allies landed in Normandy in June 1944, and the story ended after the Soviet Army entered Budapest in January 1945. Until the German Nazis were defeated, they controlled and were responsible for the death camp horrors.

If we&#039;re going to make fine points, I would add that Poles who weren&#039;t card-carrying Nazis didn&#039;t necessarily like Jews.  There was Antisemitism in Poland as there was in Russia, Hungary, France and elsewhere. Some Poles provided food, warm clothing and other assistance to Jews fleeing to Slovakia, Hungary and Romania. Other Poles slammed their doors shut when approached by presumably Jewish refugees, either because they were afraid of being shot by the Germans for helping Jews or because they didn&#039;t like Jews. And there were Poles who didn&#039;t like Jews and collaborated with the German Nazis. I&#039;ve read many accounts of fleeing Polish Jews who had to very careful how they related to strangers (Poles, when they were still in Poland).  So it isn&#039;t correct to distinguish between Poles and German Nazis, implying that all Poles were tolerant people. I think Poles were mainly patriots or nationalists, struggling against German and Russian invaders.

Jim Powell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can understand why Mr. Przedzienkowski might take offense at my reference to &#8220;Polish death camps&#8221; &#8212; I see there&#8217;s a Wikipedia entry on &#8220;&#8216;Polish death camps&#8217; controversy&#8221; about authors who apparently try to blame non-Nazi Poles and absolve Nazis for death camps in Poland.</p>
<p>But my Raoul Wallenberg story is entirely about horrors perpetrated by German and Hungarian Nazis, so obviously I&#8217;m not absolving Nazis of anything.</p>
<p>I was clearly making a geographical reference to Nazi death camps in Poland as opposed to death camps elsewhere.  I said that it was no longer possible to ship Jews to the death camps in Poland (which is what I meant by &#8220;Polish death camps&#8221;) &#8212; the reason why the Nazis began the death marches from Budapest.</p>
<p>Moreover, the context for the whole story is the German Nazi conquest of Europe.  The Wallenberg story began after the Allies landed in Normandy in June 1944, and the story ended after the Soviet Army entered Budapest in January 1945. Until the German Nazis were defeated, they controlled and were responsible for the death camp horrors.</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re going to make fine points, I would add that Poles who weren&#8217;t card-carrying Nazis didn&#8217;t necessarily like Jews.  There was Antisemitism in Poland as there was in Russia, Hungary, France and elsewhere. Some Poles provided food, warm clothing and other assistance to Jews fleeing to Slovakia, Hungary and Romania. Other Poles slammed their doors shut when approached by presumably Jewish refugees, either because they were afraid of being shot by the Germans for helping Jews or because they didn&#8217;t like Jews. And there were Poles who didn&#8217;t like Jews and collaborated with the German Nazis. I&#8217;ve read many accounts of fleeing Polish Jews who had to very careful how they related to strangers (Poles, when they were still in Poland).  So it isn&#8217;t correct to distinguish between Poles and German Nazis, implying that all Poles were tolerant people. I think Poles were mainly patriots or nationalists, struggling against German and Russian invaders.</p>
<p>Jim Powell</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Przedzienkowski</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/raoul-wallenberg-great-angel-of-rescue/comment-page-1/#comment-33552</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Przedzienkowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2010 18:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/raoul-wallenberg-great-angel-of-rescue/#comment-33552</guid>
		<description>The statement &#039;Polish death camps were blocked.&#039; is offensive and incorrect. There were no Polish death camps. The Nazi&#039;s established the death camps on occupied Polish soil.  The camps were German/Nazi.
Please correct the offending and incorrect remark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The statement &#8216;Polish death camps were blocked.&#8217; is offensive and incorrect. There were no Polish death camps. The Nazi&#8217;s established the death camps on occupied Polish soil.  The camps were German/Nazi.<br />
Please correct the offending and incorrect remark.</p>
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