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	<title>Comments on: On Freedom of Association</title>
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	<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/</link>
	<description>Ideas on Liberty</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:14:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: New England Patriots Plan</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/comment-page-1/#comment-55428</link>
		<dc:creator>New England Patriots Plan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 22:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hey there, simply become aware of your website through Search engines, and found that it is truly educational. I&#039;m going to look out for brussels. I will be grateful for people who carry on this in future. Plenty of people will likely be benefited from your writing. Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey there, simply become aware of your website through Search engines, and found that it is truly educational. I&#8217;m going to look out for brussels. I will be grateful for people who carry on this in future. Plenty of people will likely be benefited from your writing. Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: John Zube</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/comment-page-1/#comment-44356</link>
		<dc:creator>John Zube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2011 08:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Suddenly, it worked for both. Thanks. Now you can eliminate either of the two.
I am very glad that all articles of THE FREEMAN are now online!
Previously, they were only available on microfiche and these have, alas, never become popular enough among freedom lovers, in spite of my own attempts for several decades to popularize them with my LIBERTARIAN MICROFICHE PUBLISHING.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suddenly, it worked for both. Thanks. Now you can eliminate either of the two.<br />
I am very glad that all articles of THE FREEMAN are now online!<br />
Previously, they were only available on microfiche and these have, alas, never become popular enough among freedom lovers, in spite of my own attempts for several decades to popularize them with my LIBERTARIAN MICROFICHE PUBLISHING.</p>
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		<title>By: John Zube</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/comment-page-1/#comment-44355</link>
		<dc:creator>John Zube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2011 08:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/on-freedom-of-association/#comment-44355</guid>
		<description>Freedom of association should include full freedom of disassociation, i.e. individual, minority and majority secessionism, towards federal, State &amp; local governments and freedom to associate voluntarily, under personal law or full exterritorial autonomy. That right &amp; liberty is mostly quite ignored by articles dealing only with the remaining and limited freedom of association under the sovereignty of territorial States, whether they are democratic, republican or openly despotic ones.
See e.g. www.panarchy.org &amp; www.panarchism.info &amp; the numerous results of Google researches for &quot;panarchy&quot; &amp; for &quot;panarchism&quot;. Alas, not all understand it in the meaning of the originator of this term, P. E. De Puydt, in his French article Panarchie, in REVUE TRIMESTRIELLE, Brussels, July 1860. There are now at least German, English, Italien Spanish and Greek translation of this important article, which consistently applies laissez faire ideas - even to voluntary anarchists, just tolerantly doing their own things for or to themselves. Apparently, my first comment was not accepted. Perhaps I am lucky with this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freedom of association should include full freedom of disassociation, i.e. individual, minority and majority secessionism, towards federal, State &amp; local governments and freedom to associate voluntarily, under personal law or full exterritorial autonomy. That right &amp; liberty is mostly quite ignored by articles dealing only with the remaining and limited freedom of association under the sovereignty of territorial States, whether they are democratic, republican or openly despotic ones.<br />
See e.g. <a href="http://www.panarchy.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.panarchy.org</a> &amp; <a href="http://www.panarchism.info" rel="nofollow">http://www.panarchism.info</a> &amp; the numerous results of Google researches for &#8220;panarchy&#8221; &amp; for &#8220;panarchism&#8221;. Alas, not all understand it in the meaning of the originator of this term, P. E. De Puydt, in his French article Panarchie, in REVUE TRIMESTRIELLE, Brussels, July 1860. There are now at least German, English, Italien Spanish and Greek translation of this important article, which consistently applies laissez faire ideas &#8211; even to voluntary anarchists, just tolerantly doing their own things for or to themselves. Apparently, my first comment was not accepted. Perhaps I am lucky with this one.</p>
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		<title>By: John Zube</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/comment-page-1/#comment-44354</link>
		<dc:creator>John Zube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jul 2011 08:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/on-freedom-of-association/#comment-44354</guid>
		<description>Quite typical for such articles, the freedom to dissociate oneself, even from territorial governments, at all three levels, federal, State &amp; local, is here ignored, i.e. the right of individuals, minorities and the majority to secede from them and then to re-associate on a voluntary and personal law basis, under full exterritorial autonomy. See e.g. www.panarchy.org and www.panarchism.info. Writings on this subject are fast increasing, as indicated by the numerous search results by Google for &quot;panarchy&quot; and &quot;panarchism&quot;, even though not all use these terms in the same meaning as the originator of the term did: P.E. De Puydt, REVUE TRIMESTRIELLE, Brusselles, July 1860, in his French article Panarchie, which is now translated into several other languages, e.g. German, Greek, Italian, Spanish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite typical for such articles, the freedom to dissociate oneself, even from territorial governments, at all three levels, federal, State &amp; local, is here ignored, i.e. the right of individuals, minorities and the majority to secede from them and then to re-associate on a voluntary and personal law basis, under full exterritorial autonomy. See e.g. <a href="http://www.panarchy.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.panarchy.org</a> and <a href="http://www.panarchism.info" rel="nofollow">http://www.panarchism.info</a>. Writings on this subject are fast increasing, as indicated by the numerous search results by Google for &#8220;panarchy&#8221; and &#8220;panarchism&#8221;, even though not all use these terms in the same meaning as the originator of the term did: P.E. De Puydt, REVUE TRIMESTRIELLE, Brusselles, July 1860, in his French article Panarchie, which is now translated into several other languages, e.g. German, Greek, Italian, Spanish.</p>
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		<title>By: Wisconsin employees stripped of rights? By: Rob Wagner &#171; CPR</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/comment-page-1/#comment-40330</link>
		<dc:creator>Wisconsin employees stripped of rights? By: Rob Wagner &#171; CPR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Feb 2011 14:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/on-freedom-of-association/#comment-40330</guid>
		<description>[...] Freedom of Association&#8221;, Charles W. Baird, The Freeman http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Freedom of Association&#8221;, Charles W. Baird, The Freeman <a href="http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/comment-page-1/#comment-39987</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2011 21:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/on-freedom-of-association/#comment-39987</guid>
		<description>So one must ask, in light of what&#039;s happening in Wisconsin and Ohio today, is collective bargaining a right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So one must ask, in light of what&#8217;s happening in Wisconsin and Ohio today, is collective bargaining a right?</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Hash</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/comment-page-1/#comment-39965</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Hash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Feb 2011 23:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/on-freedom-of-association/#comment-39965</guid>
		<description>In his hubris, Mr. Mauler speciously compares unions to America&#039;s constitutional form of government!  Mr. Mauler, we do not compel citizens to join a church, why would you think unions are more important?  Negative Association (the right NOT to join a union) is a U.N. guarantee, and has been found to be an EU guarantee.  Are you implying that the U.S. Constitution is in controversy with these august authorities?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In his hubris, Mr. Mauler speciously compares unions to America&#8217;s constitutional form of government!  Mr. Mauler, we do not compel citizens to join a church, why would you think unions are more important?  Negative Association (the right NOT to join a union) is a U.N. guarantee, and has been found to be an EU guarantee.  Are you implying that the U.S. Constitution is in controversy with these august authorities?</p>
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		<title>By: Leo Mauler</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/comment-page-1/#comment-26890</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo Mauler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 18:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/on-freedom-of-association/#comment-26890</guid>
		<description>As for your comments about unions violating the implict right of &quot;freedom of association&quot; in the U.S. Constitution.

&quot;First, under the principle of exclusive (monopoly) representation, when a union has been approved as bargaining agent by a majority of workers on a job, that union also becomes the bargaining agent for those workers who voted against the union, as well as for those workers who didn’t vote.&quot;

By that argument the U.S. Government (and pretty much every other elected body in the U.S.A.) is UnConstitutional, because any elected representative becomes the representative of those voters who did not vote for the elected representative, as well as of those voters who did not vote.

Secondly: &quot;Second, not content to force numerical minorities to give up their individual right to freedom of association to numerical majorities through exclusive representation, the NLRA also forces many workers who are represented by unions against their will to pay those unions for the representation they do not want. This is called “union security,” but it is forced association. No worker’s fundamental human rights should be sacrificed simply to provide unions with financial security.&quot;

Again, this sounds like an attempt to make the right to freedom of association repeal the power of elected government bodies to pass laws taxing their constituencies for the revenues needed to keep government in action.  Elected representative bodies have to have funding for the proper funding of governance.

Your alternative, the idea of splitting big unions (with lots of bargaining power) into smaller and smaller groups, is a great way to engage in union-busting by getting the workers to *do it to themselves*: by splitting the unions into smaller and smaller groups, eventually the whole point of a union, the collective bargaining using threats of walkouts of all employees, loses its sting to employers.  When three people in a company of one thousand &quot;go on strike&quot;, their efforts aren&#039;t going to cause any more comment than three individuals calling in sick.

A tiny union has indistinguishable bargaining power from an individual&#039;s bargaining power.  If individuals had the power to exact living wages and safety equipment from their employers, unions would never have been created in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for your comments about unions violating the implict right of &#8220;freedom of association&#8221; in the U.S. Constitution.</p>
<p>&#8220;First, under the principle of exclusive (monopoly) representation, when a union has been approved as bargaining agent by a majority of workers on a job, that union also becomes the bargaining agent for those workers who voted against the union, as well as for those workers who didn’t vote.&#8221;</p>
<p>By that argument the U.S. Government (and pretty much every other elected body in the U.S.A.) is UnConstitutional, because any elected representative becomes the representative of those voters who did not vote for the elected representative, as well as of those voters who did not vote.</p>
<p>Secondly: &#8220;Second, not content to force numerical minorities to give up their individual right to freedom of association to numerical majorities through exclusive representation, the NLRA also forces many workers who are represented by unions against their will to pay those unions for the representation they do not want. This is called “union security,” but it is forced association. No worker’s fundamental human rights should be sacrificed simply to provide unions with financial security.&#8221;</p>
<p>Again, this sounds like an attempt to make the right to freedom of association repeal the power of elected government bodies to pass laws taxing their constituencies for the revenues needed to keep government in action.  Elected representative bodies have to have funding for the proper funding of governance.</p>
<p>Your alternative, the idea of splitting big unions (with lots of bargaining power) into smaller and smaller groups, is a great way to engage in union-busting by getting the workers to *do it to themselves*: by splitting the unions into smaller and smaller groups, eventually the whole point of a union, the collective bargaining using threats of walkouts of all employees, loses its sting to employers.  When three people in a company of one thousand &#8220;go on strike&#8221;, their efforts aren&#8217;t going to cause any more comment than three individuals calling in sick.</p>
<p>A tiny union has indistinguishable bargaining power from an individual&#8217;s bargaining power.  If individuals had the power to exact living wages and safety equipment from their employers, unions would never have been created in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Leo Mauler</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/comment-page-1/#comment-26888</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo Mauler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 May 2010 17:49:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/on-freedom-of-association/#comment-26888</guid>
		<description>You write &quot;Freedom of association is guaranteed by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The relevant portion states, “Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . . the right of the people peaceably to assemble.” Seems simple enough.&quot;

Its not that simple.  The First Amendment covers right to assemble, not freedom of association.  That point was made back in 1956 by the state of Alabama, that the U.S. Constitution only protects freedom of assembly, not freedom of association.  The SCOTUS decided against the Alabama government and added &quot;freedom of association&quot; to the list of rights protected by the U.S. Constitution (see NAACP v. ALABAMA (http://laws.findlaw.com/us/357/449.html), 1958).

SCOTUS, NAACP v. ALABAMA (1958): &quot;It is beyond debate that freedom to engage in association for the advancement of beliefs and ideas is an inseparable aspect of the &quot;liberty&quot; assured by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which embraces freedom of speech.&quot;

The difference between &quot;freedom to assemble&quot; and &quot;freedom of association&quot; is that the former is the right of a group of people all in the same place at the same time, while the latter is the right of an individual to associate with an organization or another person, even when none of the other persons associated with are in the same place as the individual in question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write &#8220;Freedom of association is guaranteed by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The relevant portion states, “Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . . the right of the people peaceably to assemble.” Seems simple enough.&#8221;</p>
<p>Its not that simple.  The First Amendment covers right to assemble, not freedom of association.  That point was made back in 1956 by the state of Alabama, that the U.S. Constitution only protects freedom of assembly, not freedom of association.  The SCOTUS decided against the Alabama government and added &#8220;freedom of association&#8221; to the list of rights protected by the U.S. Constitution (see NAACP v. ALABAMA (<a href="http://laws.findlaw.com/us/357/449.html" rel="nofollow">http://laws.findlaw.com/us/357/449.html</a>), 1958).</p>
<p>SCOTUS, NAACP v. ALABAMA (1958): &#8220;It is beyond debate that freedom to engage in association for the advancement of beliefs and ideas is an inseparable aspect of the &#8220;liberty&#8221; assured by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which embraces freedom of speech.&#8221;</p>
<p>The difference between &#8220;freedom to assemble&#8221; and &#8220;freedom of association&#8221; is that the former is the right of a group of people all in the same place at the same time, while the latter is the right of an individual to associate with an organization or another person, even when none of the other persons associated with are in the same place as the individual in question.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/on-freedom-of-association/comment-page-1/#comment-22642</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 05:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/on-freedom-of-association/#comment-22642</guid>
		<description>Good post. You can add Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as another example that freedom of association does not apply in labor markets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post. You can add Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as another example that freedom of association does not apply in labor markets.</p>
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