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	<title>Comments on: What Ended the Great Depression?</title>
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		<title>By: Tallulah</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/what-ended-the-great-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-24206</link>
		<dc:creator>Tallulah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2010 06:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9338131#comment-24206</guid>
		<description>&quot;The usual tirade that a “free market” and small govt work always. In fact, What FDR began the war concluded. Massive govt spending–Keynes–for the war did the job. And the G.I. Bill–ah, more govt–created a new America.There were regulations put into lace but over time both parties saw to it that they were removed! and now, a recession.

&quot;We need a balence between govt and the markets, but time has shown that unfettered free wheeling private enterprise leads to price fixing and rampant financial manipulation.&quot; ~ Fred Lapides

Fred, where have you seen &quot;free-wheeling private enterprise&quot; in your lifetime?

Was that what you&#039;d call the economic shenanigans that led to the recent economic crisis?  &quot;Free-wheeling private enterprise?&quot;

Did lenders just decide, on their own, to start lending to people who couldn&#039;t ordinarily qualify for loans under sensible free-market standards?  Those normal lending standards had been established by years of market experience, and on an unhampered market where a lender won&#039;t get special help from government if he lends foolishly, do you think there would be many lenders who would have risked their businesses and livelihoods in careless lending practices?

In a truly free-market economy,governments do not bail out businesses.  Businesses follow prudent practices, and take risks based on sensible criteria, and sink or swim according to their own decisions.

In the recent lead-up to the crisis, too many sub-prime loans were made because government regulatory agencies, urged on by politicians, demanded that lenders obey quotas to see to it that a certain percentage of loans go to people who could not ordinarily qualify under sensible criteria.  The Justice Department threatened prosecution against lenders who did not comply with these quotas.

This coecive threat, plus the belief that the government would financially cushion any damage that followed, played a huge role in the economic disaster that resulted.

Furthermore, the problem that the quotas were meant to fix was caused by previous government interventions.

For an elaboration of these and other non-free-market causes of the economic mess we&#039;re in, please read &quot;The Housing Boom and Bust&quot; by Thomas Sowell.  It&#039;s only 148 pages, so it won&#039;t take up much of your time, but it will give you another perspective to consider.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The usual tirade that a “free market” and small govt work always. In fact, What FDR began the war concluded. Massive govt spending–Keynes–for the war did the job. And the G.I. Bill–ah, more govt–created a new America.There were regulations put into lace but over time both parties saw to it that they were removed! and now, a recession.</p>
<p>&#8220;We need a balence between govt and the markets, but time has shown that unfettered free wheeling private enterprise leads to price fixing and rampant financial manipulation.&#8221; ~ Fred Lapides</p>
<p>Fred, where have you seen &#8220;free-wheeling private enterprise&#8221; in your lifetime?</p>
<p>Was that what you&#8217;d call the economic shenanigans that led to the recent economic crisis?  &#8220;Free-wheeling private enterprise?&#8221;</p>
<p>Did lenders just decide, on their own, to start lending to people who couldn&#8217;t ordinarily qualify for loans under sensible free-market standards?  Those normal lending standards had been established by years of market experience, and on an unhampered market where a lender won&#8217;t get special help from government if he lends foolishly, do you think there would be many lenders who would have risked their businesses and livelihoods in careless lending practices?</p>
<p>In a truly free-market economy,governments do not bail out businesses.  Businesses follow prudent practices, and take risks based on sensible criteria, and sink or swim according to their own decisions.</p>
<p>In the recent lead-up to the crisis, too many sub-prime loans were made because government regulatory agencies, urged on by politicians, demanded that lenders obey quotas to see to it that a certain percentage of loans go to people who could not ordinarily qualify under sensible criteria.  The Justice Department threatened prosecution against lenders who did not comply with these quotas.</p>
<p>This coecive threat, plus the belief that the government would financially cushion any damage that followed, played a huge role in the economic disaster that resulted.</p>
<p>Furthermore, the problem that the quotas were meant to fix was caused by previous government interventions.</p>
<p>For an elaboration of these and other non-free-market causes of the economic mess we&#8217;re in, please read &#8220;The Housing Boom and Bust&#8221; by Thomas Sowell.  It&#8217;s only 148 pages, so it won&#8217;t take up much of your time, but it will give you another perspective to consider.</p>
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		<title>By: Gonzalo</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/what-ended-the-great-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-23899</link>
		<dc:creator>Gonzalo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 23:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9338131#comment-23899</guid>
		<description>Would it be too cynical to point out that it&#039;s very likely ANY mildly sensible economic policy allowing international trade would have been successful after WWII for the US, considering the destruction of most production facilities in England, France, Japan and Germany? (not considering the rest of Europe, Africa and the Pacific) I mean, many US industries had virtually no large-scale competition in the world for quite a bit of time after the war.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would it be too cynical to point out that it&#8217;s very likely ANY mildly sensible economic policy allowing international trade would have been successful after WWII for the US, considering the destruction of most production facilities in England, France, Japan and Germany? (not considering the rest of Europe, Africa and the Pacific) I mean, many US industries had virtually no large-scale competition in the world for quite a bit of time after the war.</p>
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		<title>By: Illibertarian</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/what-ended-the-great-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-23856</link>
		<dc:creator>Illibertarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Apr 2010 03:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9338131#comment-23856</guid>
		<description>Shorter The Freeman: &quot;In 1946, the U.S. had a 120% debt-to-GDP ratio, a top marginal tax rate of 86%, and a very strong economy. This proves that the country&#039;s current 80% debt-to-GDP ratio and top marginal tax rate of 35% is the road to ruin.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shorter The Freeman: &#8220;In 1946, the U.S. had a 120% debt-to-GDP ratio, a top marginal tax rate of 86%, and a very strong economy. This proves that the country&#8217;s current 80% debt-to-GDP ratio and top marginal tax rate of 35% is the road to ruin.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: cj</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/what-ended-the-great-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-23693</link>
		<dc:creator>cj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 16:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9338131#comment-23693</guid>
		<description>It would be very interesting to see a contrast and comparison of FDR&#039;s handling of the 30&#039;s depression with the depression of the early 1920s.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9880</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be very interesting to see a contrast and comparison of FDR&#8217;s handling of the 30&#8242;s depression with the depression of the early 1920s.<br />
<a href="http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9880" rel="nofollow">http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9880</a></p>
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		<title>By: Paul in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/what-ended-the-great-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-23465</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9338131#comment-23465</guid>
		<description>Disabusing &quot;fred lapides&quot; of economic fallacies is a great idea. His ilk never tires of cheering for FDR and often relies on very loose reasoning, e.g. post hoc ergo propter hoc, to reinforce their prejudice.

Still, there are a few comments in the essay that don&#039;t pass the smell test.

(1) &quot;&#039;General Motors . . . will not participate voluntarily in what stands out crystal clear at the end of the road—a regimented economy&#039;&quot;, said Sloan.

How ironic. Now, was GM a corporation the owners of which enjoyed regimented sponsorship of the state, as by limited liability? Well, yes. Probably its financiers, suppliers, etc., too. Such limitation helps to allay fears among investors that they&#039;ll get burned by one of their fellow investors, and you&#039;ll not soon get the approximate of ltd. liability by contract. Another form of sponorship is roadbuilding, esp. the vastly expanded roadbuilding of the past 100 years. Without government to subsidize automakers this way, the full cost of car ownership would not be masked, and the purchase decision of car would have to factor this in.

In fact, GM participated in a regimented economy througout the jouney, Sloan was involved personally for decades, and GM stayed in business (which suggests positive cash flow over a long period of time). In Sloan&#039;s defense, maybe he was suffering from the principle of salesmanship. Too bad he didn&#039;t live to see what became of his Governmennt Motors.

(2) &quot;With freer markets...&quot;?

Aren&#039;t all markets either free or not free? Whatever happened to the principle of negation and the law of noncontradiction??

Think of commerce as you would a person, who is either a slave or not a slave, either not free or free. If the person is unfree and then the unfreedom is diminished, s/he remains unfree nonetheless. S/he&#039;s not freer, just less unfree, like an Oberkapo in a concentration camp upon promotion from mere Kapo.

The idea, again, is that there are degrees of enslavement but not of freedom. If you suppose otherwise, you must either accept (a) degress of freedom BUT NOT of slavery, which would be ludicrous (think: Oberkapo), or (b) use &#039;free&#039; and &#039;unfree&#039; as contraries, not contradictories. But (b) vastly complicates the issue, for what terms contradict both &#039;free&#039; and &#039;unfree&#039; and yet are not synonymous with either, as most use &#039;unenslaved&#039; and &#039;enslaved&#039; now? Perhaps two terms themselves contraries with respect to each other.

Anyhow, the conclusion becomes, &quot;with less rigged, less unfree markets,...&quot;. Of course, this will make some whine and complain about negativity. Let them pound sand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disabusing &#8220;fred lapides&#8221; of economic fallacies is a great idea. His ilk never tires of cheering for FDR and often relies on very loose reasoning, e.g. post hoc ergo propter hoc, to reinforce their prejudice.</p>
<p>Still, there are a few comments in the essay that don&#8217;t pass the smell test.</p>
<p>(1) &#8220;&#8216;General Motors . . . will not participate voluntarily in what stands out crystal clear at the end of the road—a regimented economy&#8217;&#8221;, said Sloan.</p>
<p>How ironic. Now, was GM a corporation the owners of which enjoyed regimented sponsorship of the state, as by limited liability? Well, yes. Probably its financiers, suppliers, etc., too. Such limitation helps to allay fears among investors that they&#8217;ll get burned by one of their fellow investors, and you&#8217;ll not soon get the approximate of ltd. liability by contract. Another form of sponorship is roadbuilding, esp. the vastly expanded roadbuilding of the past 100 years. Without government to subsidize automakers this way, the full cost of car ownership would not be masked, and the purchase decision of car would have to factor this in.</p>
<p>In fact, GM participated in a regimented economy througout the jouney, Sloan was involved personally for decades, and GM stayed in business (which suggests positive cash flow over a long period of time). In Sloan&#8217;s defense, maybe he was suffering from the principle of salesmanship. Too bad he didn&#8217;t live to see what became of his Governmennt Motors.</p>
<p>(2) &#8220;With freer markets&#8230;&#8221;?</p>
<p>Aren&#8217;t all markets either free or not free? Whatever happened to the principle of negation and the law of noncontradiction??</p>
<p>Think of commerce as you would a person, who is either a slave or not a slave, either not free or free. If the person is unfree and then the unfreedom is diminished, s/he remains unfree nonetheless. S/he&#8217;s not freer, just less unfree, like an Oberkapo in a concentration camp upon promotion from mere Kapo.</p>
<p>The idea, again, is that there are degrees of enslavement but not of freedom. If you suppose otherwise, you must either accept (a) degress of freedom BUT NOT of slavery, which would be ludicrous (think: Oberkapo), or (b) use &#8216;free&#8217; and &#8216;unfree&#8217; as contraries, not contradictories. But (b) vastly complicates the issue, for what terms contradict both &#8216;free&#8217; and &#8216;unfree&#8217; and yet are not synonymous with either, as most use &#8216;unenslaved&#8217; and &#8216;enslaved&#8217; now? Perhaps two terms themselves contraries with respect to each other.</p>
<p>Anyhow, the conclusion becomes, &#8220;with less rigged, less unfree markets,&#8230;&#8221;. Of course, this will make some whine and complain about negativity. Let them pound sand.</p>
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		<title>By: British Whig</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/what-ended-the-great-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-23327</link>
		<dc:creator>British Whig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9338131#comment-23327</guid>
		<description>Jonathan - you will need to think about sailors and marines too. &#039;Soldiers&#039; and &#039;armed forces&#039; are not synonyms!
Great article on a topic I&#039;d just been pondering. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan &#8211; you will need to think about sailors and marines too. &#8216;Soldiers&#8217; and &#8216;armed forces&#8217; are not synonyms!<br />
Great article on a topic I&#8217;d just been pondering. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: J Robert Kinnett</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/what-ended-the-great-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-23166</link>
		<dc:creator>J Robert Kinnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9338131#comment-23166</guid>
		<description>Magnificent article, except it left off one key factor: Skills.
The political mood of the 1930&#039;s was inflamed by one of the greatest advances in history: Henry Ford&#039;s tractor.  Introduced in the 1920&#039;s, the tractor lowered the cost of production on farms across the U.S. enormously.  It had one tragic side effect, though.  It left ten million unskilled farm workers unemployed.  Moving to the city to find work, wages for unskilled labor were pressured down and down with this influx of hungry people - hungry voters - trying to survive.
Astute politicians harnessed this angst to launch the Smoot-Hawley tariffs and FDR’s “feel good” programs, disregarding what made economic sense, for they were sure-fire vote-getters from what had previously been a largely illiterate public.
World War II provided eight million men with a job where they could see how Leadership, Management and Social Skills paid off in getting work done together with others in a modern organizational setting.  Farm work teaches many great lessons, but not necessarily Social Skills.  Granted, the cost of the War was staggering in human misery and just the increase in debt of 200 billion 1940-dollars (equal to 6 trillion 2010-dollars) left the nation with an enormous burden that could not be ignored.
These men came home after the War elated with the energy that hard-fought victory brings, and trained to do real work in sizable organizations.
Add to that all the factors Professor Folsom listed above, and the stage was truly set for an economic revival.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Magnificent article, except it left off one key factor: Skills.<br />
The political mood of the 1930&#8242;s was inflamed by one of the greatest advances in history: Henry Ford&#8217;s tractor.  Introduced in the 1920&#8242;s, the tractor lowered the cost of production on farms across the U.S. enormously.  It had one tragic side effect, though.  It left ten million unskilled farm workers unemployed.  Moving to the city to find work, wages for unskilled labor were pressured down and down with this influx of hungry people &#8211; hungry voters &#8211; trying to survive.<br />
Astute politicians harnessed this angst to launch the Smoot-Hawley tariffs and FDR’s “feel good” programs, disregarding what made economic sense, for they were sure-fire vote-getters from what had previously been a largely illiterate public.<br />
World War II provided eight million men with a job where they could see how Leadership, Management and Social Skills paid off in getting work done together with others in a modern organizational setting.  Farm work teaches many great lessons, but not necessarily Social Skills.  Granted, the cost of the War was staggering in human misery and just the increase in debt of 200 billion 1940-dollars (equal to 6 trillion 2010-dollars) left the nation with an enormous burden that could not be ignored.<br />
These men came home after the War elated with the energy that hard-fought victory brings, and trained to do real work in sizable organizations.<br />
Add to that all the factors Professor Folsom listed above, and the stage was truly set for an economic revival.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Finegold Catalán</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/what-ended-the-great-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-22942</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Finegold Catalán</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:42:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9338131#comment-22942</guid>
		<description>Dr. Palmer,

Do you know where I could find information on the wages of U.S. soldiers during the Second World War?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Palmer,</p>
<p>Do you know where I could find information on the wages of U.S. soldiers during the Second World War?</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/what-ended-the-great-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-22902</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 23:20:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9338131#comment-22902</guid>
		<description>&quot;If they were saving their incomes in the form of government bonds, as many were, how would that have added to the capital structure?&quot;

I had believed as Jonathan did, but your point is very well taken.  I knew (from family stories and what I&#039;ve read) that everyone had saved his money during the War -- there was nothing to spend it on after all -- but had not taken the time to think through the ramifications of its being saved in the form of government bonds.

I suppose that the large manufacturers made enough profit through their war production to fund the initial return to civilian goods, but it certainly does point to the return to a less-regulated economy as the primary source of the post-war boom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If they were saving their incomes in the form of government bonds, as many were, how would that have added to the capital structure?&#8221;</p>
<p>I had believed as Jonathan did, but your point is very well taken.  I knew (from family stories and what I&#8217;ve read) that everyone had saved his money during the War &#8212; there was nothing to spend it on after all &#8212; but had not taken the time to think through the ramifications of its being saved in the form of government bonds.</p>
<p>I suppose that the large manufacturers made enough profit through their war production to fund the initial return to civilian goods, but it certainly does point to the return to a less-regulated economy as the primary source of the post-war boom.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom G. Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/what-ended-the-great-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-22889</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom G. Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 23:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/?p=9338131#comment-22889</guid>
		<description>Jonathan, If they were saving their incomes in the form of government bonds, as many were, how would that have added to the capital structure?  I find that an unlikely explanation of the post-war recovery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan, If they were saving their incomes in the form of government bonds, as many were, how would that have added to the capital structure?  I find that an unlikely explanation of the post-war recovery.</p>
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