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	<title>Comments on: Can You Spot the Billionaire?</title>
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	<description>Ideas on Liberty</description>
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		<title>By: Milton Recht</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/comment-page-1/#comment-16326</link>
		<dc:creator>Milton Recht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/#comment-16326</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, most people who recite Gini coefficients do not understand the peculiarities and limitations of using it in international comparisons, especially for a geographically large country like the US with a diverse population and economic opportunities.

In The US, there are large regional cost of living differences. For example, the cost of living in San Francisco is much higher than living in Des Moines. Local wages reflect these regional variations and cause the Gini coefficient to rise. In both cities, residents may have an equal standard of living and the Gini in each city could be low, but produce a higher Gini when the two populations are combined.  EU countries are much smaller and have a much lower regional cost of living variation than the US. The Gini for the entire EU, without making adjustments for other problems discussed below, gets much closer to the US Gini. I believe .37 for the entire EU versus .46 for the US. It would be even closer if the adjustments discussed below were made.

Since Gini coefficients are computed using income at a point in time and not lifetime income, countries, like the US, with a higher number of new entrants into the workforce, due to immigrants, graduating students, mothers returning to the workforce, etc., will produce a higher Gini. A higher replacement birth rate, such as in the US versus some EU countries, raises the Gini number.

Likewise, there will be a higher Gini, if there are more opportunities to increase one\&#039;s income over one\&#039;s lifetime in a country, such as in the US, through business ownership, additional education, job promotions, experience, etc. 

Investment income is not included in international Gini numbers. Retirees and others using investment income, make the Gini look higher in their countries. In countries with greater reliance on government retirement pensions, the Gini will be lower, especially if the government funds are counted as income.

Some countries count government transfers and benefits as income, e.g. France. However, the US does not. Also, some countries give money as benefits, which count as income, while other countries give goods or vouchers (food stamps, etc.), which do not count as income. The US Gini is higher than in EU and other countries that count their government programs as income or give cash.

The number of income data points influences the Gini coefficient. A country that measures its income distributions at quintiles (every 20 percent) will likely produce a different Gini number usually lower) than if it measured its income distribution at every 5 percent level.

Similarly, household Gini is lower than individual Gini in a country. Gini depends on whether one looks at household versus individual income.

The most troubling aspect of the Gini coefficient is that it makes the natural distribution of income and wealth in a country look bad. Income, wealth and many other of life\&#039;s happenings follow a power law distribution. It is called a Pareto Distribution after his economic observations of this distribution.

It is more commonly known as the 80-20 or 70-30 rule. Many things in life approximate this type of distribution. Twenty percent of criminals cause eighty percent of crimes; twenty percent of drivers cause eighty percent of accidents; people wear twenty percent of their clothes eighty percent of the time; twenty percent of a company\&#039;s customers account for eighty percent of sales, etc.

Income and wealth naturally follow an 80-20 rule. Twenty percent of people produce 80 percent of the income and wealth in a country. In a capitalistic society, with few limitations on individual advancement, education and entrepreneurship, income will follow an approximate 80-20 rule or Pareto distribution. 

Economically free countries naturally will approximate the 80-20 rule and will produce a higher Gini coefficient than countries that restrict and limit economic advancement and entrepreneurship. A typical power law (Pareto distribution) for 80-20 percent income in a country will produce a Gini that seems high, about .35 to .5 than in countries that limit advancement and business opportunities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, most people who recite Gini coefficients do not understand the peculiarities and limitations of using it in international comparisons, especially for a geographically large country like the US with a diverse population and economic opportunities.</p>
<p>In The US, there are large regional cost of living differences. For example, the cost of living in San Francisco is much higher than living in Des Moines. Local wages reflect these regional variations and cause the Gini coefficient to rise. In both cities, residents may have an equal standard of living and the Gini in each city could be low, but produce a higher Gini when the two populations are combined.  EU countries are much smaller and have a much lower regional cost of living variation than the US. The Gini for the entire EU, without making adjustments for other problems discussed below, gets much closer to the US Gini. I believe .37 for the entire EU versus .46 for the US. It would be even closer if the adjustments discussed below were made.</p>
<p>Since Gini coefficients are computed using income at a point in time and not lifetime income, countries, like the US, with a higher number of new entrants into the workforce, due to immigrants, graduating students, mothers returning to the workforce, etc., will produce a higher Gini. A higher replacement birth rate, such as in the US versus some EU countries, raises the Gini number.</p>
<p>Likewise, there will be a higher Gini, if there are more opportunities to increase one\&#8217;s income over one\&#8217;s lifetime in a country, such as in the US, through business ownership, additional education, job promotions, experience, etc. </p>
<p>Investment income is not included in international Gini numbers. Retirees and others using investment income, make the Gini look higher in their countries. In countries with greater reliance on government retirement pensions, the Gini will be lower, especially if the government funds are counted as income.</p>
<p>Some countries count government transfers and benefits as income, e.g. France. However, the US does not. Also, some countries give money as benefits, which count as income, while other countries give goods or vouchers (food stamps, etc.), which do not count as income. The US Gini is higher than in EU and other countries that count their government programs as income or give cash.</p>
<p>The number of income data points influences the Gini coefficient. A country that measures its income distributions at quintiles (every 20 percent) will likely produce a different Gini number usually lower) than if it measured its income distribution at every 5 percent level.</p>
<p>Similarly, household Gini is lower than individual Gini in a country. Gini depends on whether one looks at household versus individual income.</p>
<p>The most troubling aspect of the Gini coefficient is that it makes the natural distribution of income and wealth in a country look bad. Income, wealth and many other of life\&#8217;s happenings follow a power law distribution. It is called a Pareto Distribution after his economic observations of this distribution.</p>
<p>It is more commonly known as the 80-20 or 70-30 rule. Many things in life approximate this type of distribution. Twenty percent of criminals cause eighty percent of crimes; twenty percent of drivers cause eighty percent of accidents; people wear twenty percent of their clothes eighty percent of the time; twenty percent of a company\&#8217;s customers account for eighty percent of sales, etc.</p>
<p>Income and wealth naturally follow an 80-20 rule. Twenty percent of people produce 80 percent of the income and wealth in a country. In a capitalistic society, with few limitations on individual advancement, education and entrepreneurship, income will follow an approximate 80-20 rule or Pareto distribution. </p>
<p>Economically free countries naturally will approximate the 80-20 rule and will produce a higher Gini coefficient than countries that restrict and limit economic advancement and entrepreneurship. A typical power law (Pareto distribution) for 80-20 percent income in a country will produce a Gini that seems high, about .35 to .5 than in countries that limit advancement and business opportunities.</p>
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		<title>By: erp</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/comment-page-1/#comment-16324</link>
		<dc:creator>erp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/#comment-16324</guid>
		<description>Real life example of why we may be wrong about material things not mattering.

A relative from a Soviet bloc country emigrated to New York about 25 years ago.  He was a Moscow educated urologist -- chief of staff of a large hospital.  Here he had low level job in a hospital and lived in a working class apartment in Brooklyn. Yet he was the most upbeat person I&#039;d every talked to.  

He was fascinated with everything.  He couldn&#039;t believe that everybody could afford to have cars, appliances, nice clothes, etc.   Everybody in his country thought the American life style they saw on television and in the movies was propaganda and that we really weren&#039;t better off than they.
 
When I said I was sorry he didn&#039;t live in a nicer neighborhood, he said with great emotion, that I didn&#039;t understand.  His apartment was like a palace compared to his apartment in his home country where everything was dirty and dreary and all the people were hopeless.

You know, the kind of place where the Canadian student quoted in the first paragraph would have been delighted with the Gini coefficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Real life example of why we may be wrong about material things not mattering.</p>
<p>A relative from a Soviet bloc country emigrated to New York about 25 years ago.  He was a Moscow educated urologist &#8212; chief of staff of a large hospital.  Here he had low level job in a hospital and lived in a working class apartment in Brooklyn. Yet he was the most upbeat person I&#8217;d every talked to.  </p>
<p>He was fascinated with everything.  He couldn&#8217;t believe that everybody could afford to have cars, appliances, nice clothes, etc.   Everybody in his country thought the American life style they saw on television and in the movies was propaganda and that we really weren&#8217;t better off than they.</p>
<p>When I said I was sorry he didn&#8217;t live in a nicer neighborhood, he said with great emotion, that I didn&#8217;t understand.  His apartment was like a palace compared to his apartment in his home country where everything was dirty and dreary and all the people were hopeless.</p>
<p>You know, the kind of place where the Canadian student quoted in the first paragraph would have been delighted with the Gini coefficient.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian Franck</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/comment-page-1/#comment-16316</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian Franck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/#comment-16316</guid>
		<description>In 2005 the Danish Minister of Welfare (Social Minister), Eva Kjer Hansen, of the socalled Danish Libertarian Party, said in an interview that she did not value equality in itself and that the Danish society could use a little more inequality to the benefit of rich and poor alike. The uproar and outrage was deafening! Her boss, the prime minister, reprimanden her and said that &quot;it is not government policy to heighten inequality in our society.&quot; Every other party and most pundits distanced themselves and attacked her for being callous and cynical. Soon after she withdrew her statements. (http://www.berlingske.dk/article/20050921/danmark/109210798/ - Article in Danish!)

Now that&#039;s what you get in the world&#039;s most equal society if you utter a view like this. 

Btw - the Danish Gini-coefficient was 24,7 (USA: 40,8) in 2006 and average GDP per citizen was 35,125 PPP USD (USA: 43,968 PPP USD). I wouldn&#039;t mind a slightly different tradeoff than that, myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 2005 the Danish Minister of Welfare (Social Minister), Eva Kjer Hansen, of the socalled Danish Libertarian Party, said in an interview that she did not value equality in itself and that the Danish society could use a little more inequality to the benefit of rich and poor alike. The uproar and outrage was deafening! Her boss, the prime minister, reprimanden her and said that &#8220;it is not government policy to heighten inequality in our society.&#8221; Every other party and most pundits distanced themselves and attacked her for being callous and cynical. Soon after she withdrew her statements. (<a href="http://www.berlingske.dk/article/20050921/danmark/109210798/" rel="nofollow">http://www.berlingske.dk/article/20050921/danmark/109210798/</a> &#8211; Article in Danish!)</p>
<p>Now that&#8217;s what you get in the world&#8217;s most equal society if you utter a view like this. </p>
<p>Btw &#8211; the Danish Gini-coefficient was 24,7 (USA: 40,8) in 2006 and average GDP per citizen was 35,125 PPP USD (USA: 43,968 PPP USD). I wouldn&#8217;t mind a slightly different tradeoff than that, myself.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/comment-page-1/#comment-15239</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/#comment-15239</guid>
		<description>Once people understand that income is earned and not distributed, many of these false worldviews will go away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once people understand that income is earned and not distributed, many of these false worldviews will go away.</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/comment-page-1/#comment-13085</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 12:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/#comment-13085</guid>
		<description>Libertarian: I have met many people making the same choice she made. What seems to be the main reasoning behind such an approach is that these people focus on equality as uniformity. For them equality in front of the law or equal opportunity are not enough because they feel that people are born different (meaning unequal) and that it is unfair.
Furthermore I guess from what I heard that envy is the other explanation. The idea that they could be in the bottom half is so upsetting to them that they consider perfect uniformity a better option. My sister once made an argument for government controlled monopoly because she could not stand the idea that some people could pay less than her for similar service (now she has changed but she was very serious at the time).
In addition by choosing poverty for all they appear to be willing to be poor themselves and therefore be compassionate.
This type of reaction is distressing but it does not seem that reasonable arguments are effective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Libertarian: I have met many people making the same choice she made. What seems to be the main reasoning behind such an approach is that these people focus on equality as uniformity. For them equality in front of the law or equal opportunity are not enough because they feel that people are born different (meaning unequal) and that it is unfair.<br />
Furthermore I guess from what I heard that envy is the other explanation. The idea that they could be in the bottom half is so upsetting to them that they consider perfect uniformity a better option. My sister once made an argument for government controlled monopoly because she could not stand the idea that some people could pay less than her for similar service (now she has changed but she was very serious at the time).<br />
In addition by choosing poverty for all they appear to be willing to be poor themselves and therefore be compassionate.<br />
This type of reaction is distressing but it does not seem that reasonable arguments are effective.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/comment-page-1/#comment-12758</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 01:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/#comment-12758</guid>
		<description>\&quot;The Capitalist achievement does not typicaly consist in providing more silk stockings for Queens, but in bringing them within the reach of factory girls and in return for steadily decreasing amounts of effort.\&quot;

Joseph Schumpeter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>\&quot;The Capitalist achievement does not typicaly consist in providing more silk stockings for Queens, but in bringing them within the reach of factory girls and in return for steadily decreasing amounts of effort.\&quot;</p>
<p>Joseph Schumpeter</p>
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		<title>By: Libertarian</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/comment-page-1/#comment-12642</link>
		<dc:creator>Libertarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 23:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/#comment-12642</guid>
		<description>Frankly, I don&#039;t understand how there can even be a serious disagreement on this issue.  Other than feelings and gut instincts, where is there ANY evidence that a smaller Gini coefficient is better?  I have a friend whom I once asked a long time ago, in college, if it was better to have half the people poor and half the people rich, or to have all the people poor.  She thought only a moment before saying that having all the people poor was preferable.  Now what is the reason for such an answer?  An instinct for fairness, perhaps?  It certainly isn&#039;t reason!  If anyone here agrees with her, please tell us why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frankly, I don&#8217;t understand how there can even be a serious disagreement on this issue.  Other than feelings and gut instincts, where is there ANY evidence that a smaller Gini coefficient is better?  I have a friend whom I once asked a long time ago, in college, if it was better to have half the people poor and half the people rich, or to have all the people poor.  She thought only a moment before saying that having all the people poor was preferable.  Now what is the reason for such an answer?  An instinct for fairness, perhaps?  It certainly isn&#8217;t reason!  If anyone here agrees with her, please tell us why.</p>
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		<title>By: Libertarian</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/comment-page-1/#comment-12641</link>
		<dc:creator>Libertarian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 23:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/#comment-12641</guid>
		<description>This reminds me of what Milton Friedman used to say......that the very rich always live well, it&#039;s the middle class and the poor who benefit so much more from capitalism and free markets.  A middle class denizen today in the U.S. has much more wealth, free time, fun, and toys than an average rich guy of a hundred years ago.  The poor of socialist countries?  Not much difference made in those hundred years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me of what Milton Friedman used to say&#8230;&#8230;that the very rich always live well, it&#8217;s the middle class and the poor who benefit so much more from capitalism and free markets.  A middle class denizen today in the U.S. has much more wealth, free time, fun, and toys than an average rich guy of a hundred years ago.  The poor of socialist countries?  Not much difference made in those hundred years.</p>
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		<title>By: Alice Temnick</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/comment-page-1/#comment-12635</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice Temnick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 22:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thefreemanonline.org/uncategorized/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/#comment-12635</guid>
		<description>I am grateful to live in a country where entrepreneurship is rewarded, where &quot;Mr. Bucks&quot; can prosper and where movement throughout the quintiles of our Lorenz Curve is dynamic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am grateful to live in a country where entrepreneurship is rewarded, where &#8220;Mr. Bucks&#8221; can prosper and where movement throughout the quintiles of our Lorenz Curve is dynamic.</p>
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		<title>By: tim</title>
		<link>http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/can-you-spot-the-billionaire/comment-page-1/#comment-12622</link>
		<dc:creator>tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 18:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wouldn&#039;t the graduate student be in the bottom 10% of income earners?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t the graduate student be in the bottom 10% of income earners?</p>
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